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Just what are they capable of?

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Just what are they capable of?

Post  ***** on Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:02 pm

Note from these articles how we are still learning about animals discovered long ago.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/9530134/Hyenas-are-as-bright-as-primates-research-shows.html

http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/65768-chimps-teach-each-other-to-shake-hands

http://news.discovery.com/animals/dolphins-math-geniuses-120717.html


The description of Sasquatch as apes really bugs me.

I know I'm an ape, we are all apes, but there's some negative context that often accompanies Squatch discussions I've had with many learned people that just smacks of superiority complex, or arrogant delusion. I know it's semantics, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around just what they seem capable of in my personal/limited experiences, and what others have described that can't be termed any way other that 'ASTOUNDING.'

We must be one of the most curious and inquisitive species on this planet, this insatiable curiosity, and technological development over centuries of cultured civilization give us reason to be arrogant. Hell, we landed on the moon for goodness sake. We are, barring evidence to the contrary, the most scientifically advanced and intelligent species in existence on Earth. We have been pursuing in good numbers and for almost 100 years, the discovery of this brother hominid for a and we have SQUAT, excepting some blurry pictures, one or two low quality videos, and lots of tracks!! In my mind, and I'll admit I'm a simple man, I feel we can only imagine and theorize how intelligent these creatures may be in their own niche. I think they are vastly underestimated, and we must at times provide some comic relief for them stumbling around the forest with all of our gadgetry, as they continually outwit us, out-strategize, and outmaneuver us with relative ease and grace.

I must admit my puzzlement at how they avoid trail cams, even well concealed and placed by creatures(us) supposedly unrivaled in intelligence, and strategic thinking. As advanced as our systems are, as we change tactics, they change, it would be maddening, if it weren't so damned impressive.

I truly believe, and because I've experienced them myself, they are far more advanced in environmental cognition, speed of perception, spatial memory, and physical agility/dexterity/anticipation(i.e. cause/effect)of reaction.

This will have to be chopped up a bit, and it's a lot to chew on, but I'd love to hear some thoughts from you guys, about what Sasquatches could be capable of considering we've yet to establish them as a documented species, when those of us who have seen and experienced them know they are out there!

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Re: Just what are they capable of?

Post  Blondie1 on Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:48 am

[quote Noble] I must admit my puzzlement at how they avoid trail cams, even well concealed and placed by creatures(us) supposedly unrivaled in intelligence, and strategic thinking. As advanced as our systems are, as we change tactics, they change, it would be maddening, if it weren't so damned impressive.

I truly believe, and because I've experienced them myself, they are far more advanced in environmental cognition, speed of perception, spatial memory, and physical agility/dexterity/anticipation(i.e. cause/effect)of reaction.[quote]

All of the above that I bolded and underlined are excellent points. They are extremely curious and suspect that there is little that is done in the forest that they do not observe in some way.

It seems the one thing that does catch them though are audio recorders. I find that very interesting.
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Re: Just what are they capable of?

Post  Starz on Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:13 am

The sooner people get on board with the fact they are a distinct ''peoples'' the easier it is to understand their behaviors.
While different from us they are neither ''stupid'' nor ''dumb apes''.

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Re: Just what are they capable of?

Post  CMcMillan on Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:43 am

@Starz

I agree that we need to not think of them as a "APE" but more Human like. They may seem animal like in some of their behavior but that may be for their own protection, since they live closer to other dangerous animals as well. And they understand we humans fear Bears, mountain lions and such.
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Re: Just what are they capable of?

Post  Tzieth on Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:29 am

Hey Blondie,

As for your question about the camera traps, They may very well be able to see in the Infra Red spectrum. There is a lot of unjustified skepticism because Hollywood has average joe thinking infra-red is something it is not. Thanks to movies like Predator, everyone thinks infra red is "Heat Vision" or thermal vision. All it is, is light that our eyes cannot see. Therefor, if their eyes have the ability to see in this spectrum, (Like our NVG's) then their eyes are seeing light in the middle of the night that we can't see.

I seriously hope the NVG's have gotten better since I was in the Army back in the 90's but sometimes if it was night time and fully overcast, our NVG's were useless. So we would use infra-red chem-lights (Glow Sticks) as either torches or markers. These things looked just like your common red, green or blue glow sticks except when you snapped them, you would swear that they were defective. Snap them in a dark room, and you were still in a dark room. Snap them with NVG's on and the room would be as bright as day. There was light, but our eyes could not see it.

So if these guys can see in infra-red, then the infra red trip-beam would stick out to them like a sore thumb.

Some would say "If they are so curious, wouldn't they investigate it?"... I look at it like this:Curiosity only goes so far until CREEPY arrives. If you your self are walking through the woods at night and see some mysterious light coming from nowhere in the middle of the woods, you might say "Interesting." but are you going to approach it? I think I would be running the other way. Neutral
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Re: Just what are they capable of?

Post  StankApe on Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:44 am

g


Last edited by StankApe on Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Just what are they capable of?

Post  CMcMillan on Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:49 am

Spectral range
Night-useful spectral range techniques can sense radiation that is invisible to a human observer. Human vision is confined to a small portion of the electromagnetic spectrum called visible light. Enhanced spectral range allows the viewer to take advantage of non-visible sources of electromagnetic radiation (such as near-infrared or ultraviolet radiation). Some animals can see using much more of the infrared and/or ultraviolet spectrum than humans.

Many animals have a tissue layer called the tapetum lucidum in the back of the eye that reflects light back through the retina, increasing the amount of light available for it to capture. This is found in many nocturnal animals and some deep sea animals, and is the cause of eyeshine. Humans lack a tapetum lucidum.
Nocturnal mammals have rods with unique properties that make enhanced night vision possible. The nuclear pattern of their rods changes shortly after birth to become inverted. In contrast to contemporary rods, inverted rods have heterochromatin in the center of their nuclei and euchromatin and other transcription factors along the border. In addition, the outer nuclear layer (ONL) in nocturnal mammals is thick due to the millions of rods present to process the lower light intensities of a few photons. Rather than being scattered, the light is passed to each nucleus individually.[4] In fact, an animal's ability to see in low light levels may be similar to what humans see when using first- or perhaps second-generation image intensifiers

In the evolution of mammals, segments of color vision were lost, then for a few species of primates, regained by gene duplication. Eutherian mammals other than primates (for example, dogs, mammalian farm animals) generally have less-effective two-receptor (dichromatic) color perception systems, which distinguish blue, green, and yellow—but cannot distinguish oranges and reds. There is some evidence that a few mammals, such as cats, have redeveloped the ability to distinguish short wavelength colors, in at least a limited way, via one amino acid mutations in opsin genes.[31][32] The adaptation to see reds is particularly important for primate mammals, since it leads to identification of fruits, and also newly sprouting reddish leaves, which are particularly nutritious.
However, even among primates, full color vision differs between New World and Old World monkeys. Old World primates, including monkeys and all apes, have vision similar to humans. New World monkeys may or may not have color sensitivity at this level: in most species, males are dichromats, and about 60% of females are trichromats, but the owl monkeys are cone monochromats, and both sexes of howler monkeys are trichromats.[33][34][35][36] Visual sensitivity differences between males and females in a single species is due to the gene for yellow-green sensitive opsin protein (which confers ability to differentiate red from green) residing on the X sex chromosome.

When you look at the evolution if some who claim that Bigfoot is a Hominid from the past that has survived over time, it is possible they had this ability to see in the infra-spectrum. Where we lost it but they still retain it. We do not know about the past to this detail of how they actually saw since NO EYE BALL has survived over time. So it is only speculation that we never had the ability or other mammals didn't either.
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Re: Just what are they capable of?

Post  Tzieth on Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:22 am

StankApe wrote:your statement is not entirely true


Far infrared waves are thermal. we feel them as heat. near infrared waves are not.


many things (including animals) emit infrared waves, but ,unlike say pit vipers who use heat sensitive pits to detect infrared waves,no mammal is known to see in the infra red spectrum. So it seems like more magical abilities to make excuses for the lack of evidence eh?

The fact is that we do not know if they see the infra-red spectrum. Animals with acute night-vision are also relatively stupid compared to the animals we use to test normal color range on. Where you could train a monkey to throw a switch when he sees a color, you cannot train a Lemur or Bushbaby. Both animals can well possibly see in infra-red and some scientists argue that they can, but can't seem to back up their claim with anything satisfactory to science. It's like the mouse in the maze. It looks like they learn and retain memory of how to get to the cheese. But now they think it could be simply following the smell of it's own urine that it leaves along the way. For years it was "confirmed" that mice had some sort of programing memory. It was not until much later that someone put a mouse in a new maze with the old pattern and wondered why it was having problems navigating. We now know that as mice travel, they leave a urine trail. If the trail lead to a dead end, the mouse turns around and drops another urine drop where it made the mistake. When placed back into the maze, it then follows it's success scent and avoids it's fail scent, which is a sort of programing type memory in it's own right, but nothing near what they thought it was in the past.

Likewise, even with monkeys who pull levers. "Pull this one when you see the orange light." How do we really know it is seeing an orange light and not a Ultra-Yellow that we cannot see? (I made up Ultra-yellow lol to the best of my knowledge it does not exist. But any color that they may see that we can not.)

Take my self for example. I could not be a Patrol Cop because the department I worked for required full color vision. I have "Red-Green color vision." supposedly everything I see is in a shade of red or green based off of a test where I had to say what number I seen in a bunch of multicolors dots. But I can see yellow, and I can see Orange and I can see Blue. The only problem I have is Purple. If it is more red than blue, I will see red. If it is more blue than red I will see blue. If it is "Lavender" I will see pink. I do have problems with shades of color. Magenta, Fushia(However you spell it), Teal, Maroon... These things to me look like red, blue, green or brown. Maroon can look red or brown to me depending on the shade. So obviously I can see more than red or green. So if they can't even tell the spectrum that a human can see in, how do we know what animals can see in?
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I totally agree.

Post  Blondie1 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:46 pm

Starz wrote:The sooner people get on board with the fact they are a distinct ''peoples'' the easier it is to understand their behaviors.
While different from us they are neither ''stupid'' nor ''dumb apes''.


Amen Starz! I'm with you on this.

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