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The Sasquatch Conspiracy

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The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Tzieth on Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:13 am

This is simply thinking outside the box so no need for believers and skeptics to get overly technical. This is something we can simply speculate about.

What if Melba Kethcum suddenly became Government funded and was forced to remove people?

First off, why would there be a Sasquatch Conspiracy? A Bio-weapon that got out of hand? A Secret Soldier program that created both Dog-Man and Sasquatch? lol While entertaining, that is a topic for an entirely differnt thread. How about our already screwed up economy?

We are not in good shape right now. We are weary to drill in Alaska because it "might" effect the mating habits of the Alaskan Caribu and upset the fragile eco-system because every American enjoys spending nearly $5 a gallon for gasoline... But I digress
The logging industry is heavily affected by the spotted Owl. When I was in the Army while at JRTC, we were not allowed full access to our own training ground because of some rare pecker-wood... oops, i meant Wood-Pecker. At one point while doing a road construction mission that should have only been a two week deployment for a five mile stretch of road, we were down there for a few months because the five mile stretch of road became a 20 mile stretch as we had to divert wayyyyy out of our way to get from point A to point B. Though Point-A was five miles from point-B, in the middle were a bunch of plants that some endangered bat flies all the way from Mexico to eat.

Now you add in one or more Human cousins to the mix, then what? EVERY single resource we have is in jeopardy! Logging, Drilling, Mining, Agriculture, Construction as well as production such as oil refineries and paper mills, steel plants and all the factories dependent on Logging, Drilling, Mining and Agriculture. We would have two choices. 1) Stop giving a rats ass about wildlife or 2) Watch our Country regress to third world status. (Same for Canada.)

So it's likely that IF the Governments of the United States and Canada are aware of Sasquatch, it would be in their best interest to cover it up.

So why all of the sudden would they fund Melba? Easy answer would be because of Oxford.
If the Oxfords study comes out first and they declare that Sasquatch is a relict hominid or multiple relict hominids, then that blows the cover. England does not have Sasquatch reports.. Well they have "reports" along with werewolves and big cats, and crop circles but unlike the U.S. and Canada, they do not have any physical evidence backing up the reports. Nor does most of Western Europe. Sasquatch being discovered does not hurt them in any way.
But if discovered and known to be from the U.S. and Canada and if they are a type of Homo-genus, then in the eyes of the world we are committing some sort of atrocity. World opinion as well as the U.N. would be against us and this could lead to war.

But it is not as if we could sweep them under the rug as we have with our purposeful attempts to commit genocide of our Native Inhabitants. (U.S. not sure about Canada.). In this age, information spreads fast.

So why fund Melba?... Because it puts the ball in their (The Government's)court. If Melba's paper comes back first. (And if this is the case it will and with great speed) Then they (The U.S. Government) calls the shots. They decide where the specimens came from and where they did not. ie; "They all came from Skamania County,Washington... Do you understand Melba?". Then Oxford may either drop the study all together or change it to Yeti, Yeran, Alma and Oreng-Pendeck to see how many Homo-Hominids there are.

Just a thought...
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:32 am

I think that your argument fails on two main points.

Science doesn't care who publishes first. It's all about whether or not the experiments stand up to scrutiny. If Melba is being manipulated into doctoring her results, that doctoring shoud be evident during the peer review process, otherwise other scientists will identify the doctoring when they attempt to reproduce her results. It doesn't matter if research contradicting Melba comes from the UK as the material being tested will still originate from the US or other places where unknown ape species are thought to exist.

At best, publishing false information would only slow down the process of discovering the information the US government is hypothetically tying to cover up.

In practice governments prefer to smear people they wish to silence, not the research, as the general public tends to fall for ad hominem arguments without actually looking at the evidence. We can see that when you consider political campaigns or look at the climate change debate (please don't turn this into a climate change argument Smile ). In the spirit of your OP, maybe all the stories about braiding horse manes are government disinformation designed to discredit Melba?

The other problem is that the issue with logging, drilling and mining in conservation areas isn't always to do with whether or not we should try and extract resources, but how.

Oil companies, for example, simply don't want to pay the extra cost involved in 'safely' extracting oil from delicate ecosystems. The recent tragic BP spill was in part the result of cost cutting.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  CMcMillan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:53 am

TZ,

AS we were discussing in the chat Friday Night.
Teddy Roosevelt story he told about Bigfoot.

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/stories/bauman.htm

Then in his Presidency he enacted the following

Theodore Roosevelt and the National Park System
Theodore Roosevelt, the noted conservation president, had an impact on the national park system extending well beyond his term in office. As chief executive from 1901 to 1909, he signed legislation establishing five national parks: Crater Lake, Oregon; Wind Cave, South Dakota; Sullys Hill, North Dakota (later redesignated a game preserve); Mesa Verde, Colorado; and Platt, Oklahoma (now part of Chickasaw National Recreation Area). Another Roosevelt enactment had a broader effect, however: the Antiquities Act of June 8, 1906. While not creating a single park itself, the Antiquities Act enabled Roosevelt and his successors to proclaim ãhistoric landmarks, historic or prehistoric structures, and other objects of historic or scientific interestä in federal ownership as national monuments.

Roosevelt did not hesitate to take advantage of this new executive authority. By the end of 1906 he had proclaimed four national monuments: Devils Tower, Wyoming, on September 24 and El Morro, New Mexico, Montezuma Castle, Arizona, and Petrified Forest, Arizona, together on December 8. He was also prepared to interpret the authority expansively, protecting a large portion of the Grand Canyon as a national monument in 1908. By the end of his term he had reserved six predominantly cultural areas and twelve predominantly natural areas in this manner. Half the total were initially administered by the Agriculture Department and were later transferred to Interior Department jurisdiction.

What IF he had done this to create Natural Reservation areas for the Sasquatch?
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:28 am

I think he would probably have been able to do more if he had made it clear that he was attempting to protect BF.

I don't see the benefit in keeping quiet.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  CMcMillan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:35 am

Possible reasons:

1. Economic reasons
It is completely feasible that if Bigfoot's existence was verified, people would be afraid to go camping in the woods. This fear might spread from areas that have had Bigfoot sightings to any wooded place.The fear would come mainly from the lack of knowledge about the Bigfoot creature.

While deer walking around your campsite at night is cute, having Bigfoot strolling around could be terrifying strictly because we don't know what he or she eats. What if he or she isn't interested in the hot dogs...but is interested in our toes?

However, there are potentially thousands of people who would be interested in actually seeing (or studying) the sasquatch.... Of course! They must have done a study balancing the amount of potential tourism generated against the amount of potential/known tourism lost and decided to keep the secret. So....perhaps..3. The Missing Link
Perhaps Bigfoot is the missing link in the evolution of humanity. We know our DNA is very close to chimpanzees. But how did humans make the leap from being a cute little chimp to the brainiac's we are today?

This requires some more 'factual' examination (alright, there are no facts involved, only myth):

Bigfoot is always pictured as hairy. Chimps are hairy all over. We have very fine hair all over, with denses patches here and there.
Bigfoot walks upright. Humans walk upright. Chimps can't walk upright without assistance.
Bigfoot sightings have occured on several continents: North America, Asia and Australia.


What if?
What if the Neanderthal man didn't go extinct as predicted 30,000 years ago, but was simply shoved to live in areas that were unappealing to humans such as jungles, swamps, or deep woods? This would explain the stories of the upright, hairy, walking humanoids...aka Bigfoot.

The theory of Lloy Pye
Lloyd Pye has been doing research for years to prove that Bigfoot is part of a hominoid family, and that humans are a genetic mutation. (A result of alien DNA being spliced together with Bigfoot DNA. Is it a possibility? Yes, there are some that think so. Do we know that to be fact? Well, we may soon find out once Melba Ketchum finishes her DNA paper she is currently writing on Bigfoot DNA, gathered from 2 bodies and other specimens.)

In his book called, “Everything You Know is Wrong”, Lloyd Pye states that he believes there are four types of Bigfoot. The Bigfoot/Sasquatch, Abominable Snowman/Yeti, Alma/Kaptar, and the Agogwe/Sedapa. He gives examples how Bigfoot could be the Neanderthal man, not just by the shape of the skull, but the position of the limbs and its walk. He claims that they are more suited for this planet than humans. Humans on the other hand are a very fragile creatures. Our bones are thin, eye sockets small-which makes it hard for humans to see in the dark, and the humans walk unbalanced in uneven terrain. According to Lloyd Pye, there is not a single human bone in the so-called pre-human fossil record.

More information on this subject is provided in the links below
.

http://tlpoague.hubpages.com/hub/Why-Would-Government-Officials-Want-to-Keep-BigfootSasquatch-a-Secret
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:10 am

I can somewhat appreciate the first point - but it doesn't seem to apply when looking at existing conservation programmes. The Florida panther is arguably as dangerous as BF, yet we don't see covert conservation in order to protect tourism.

It's best if I don't comment on the second two as

a) you can only consider the notion of relict Neanderthals if you reject all evolutionary science and the associated fossil record

b) at best Lloyd Pye is as misinformed and misguided as Von Daniken and at worst a conman on a par with Sitchin, L Ron Hubbard and Rick Dyer.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  CMcMillan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:39 am

a) you can only consider the notion of relict Neanderthals if you reject all evolutionary science and the associated fossil record

Why is it not possible within Evolutionary science?

"Living fossils" are plants or animals that closely resemble species known from fossils. Many of those listed below were considered extinct and only known through fossil evidence, but were later discovered to still be alive.

It is presumed by evolutionists that fossils are much older than is correct due to a failure of the scientific community to recognize the occurrence of the Biblical global deluge. Based on an incorrect naturalistic assumption, the stratified layers are believe to have accumulated gradually, and are separated by millions of years.
Alligators and Crocodiles - The crocodile family is thought to have lived 230 million years ago and remains virtually unchanged since that time.

Army Ants - date back 100 million years to the time of the dinosaur

etc...

http://nwcreation.net/fossilsliving.html
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:46 am

Paleoanthropology is the study of human evolution and everything we know about Neanderthals comes from that field and other related evolutionary disciplines.

Neanderthals were a cultured people, producing technology and art. Not only do their remains disappear from the fossil record, but so do their tools, artifacts and any other trace of their culture.

If we were talking about the equivalent to the coelacanth I would agree with you.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  CMcMillan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:56 am

Neanderthals were a cultured people, producing technology and art. Not only do their remains disappear from the fossil record, but so do their tools, artifacts and any other trace of their culture.

SO POOF they just vanish because we can not find more fossil's yet?

You have said over and over that science doesn't know everything....
So it IS POSSIBLE that Neanderthals didn't die out. That they moved and evolved into Bigfoots.
You are making statements when science doesn't know what happen.
Just like they thought these other animals were extinct. Same concept.

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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:12 am

Fossilisation is very rare. However tools and artifacts don't have to be fossilised in order to be preserved. Most archaeological evidence relating to the history of Homo Sapiens Sapiens is derived from the junk we have left behind (not human remains).

No tools = no evidence of surviving Neanderthals.

Sure it's possible that Neanderthals evolved into another species (losing it's culture and technology), it just is not plausible without supporting evidence and such a drastic change would mean that they would cease to be Neanderthals - they would be another species.

It's possible that man could have flown to the moon 100,000 years ago, but it isn't plausible given the lack of evidence.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  CMcMillan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:25 am

Fossilisation is very rare. However tools and artifacts don't have to be fossilised in order to be preserved. Most archaeological evidence relating to the history of Homo Sapiens Sapiens is derived from the junk we have left behind (not human remains).

No tools = no evidence of surviving Neanderthals.

LOL are you serious on the highlighted?

Because that is just funny as hell you saying that.
We have no evidence of the tool that created the the h stones puma punku
So were those stones not made? Did the people Not cut them? What is it?


You can not use NO Tools and No Evidence. you would be surprise at how many tools from the 20's have gone missing and over time will go missing.
How would we know picking up a stone that it was a tool? Sticks would erode.

So please explain to me how you would ID what a tool from Neanderthals are in the woods?

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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Tzieth on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:32 am

Woodwose wrote:I can somewhat appreciate the first point - but it doesn't seem to apply when looking at existing conservation programmes. The Florida panther is arguably as dangerous as BF, yet we don't see covert conservation in order to protect tourism.

It's best if I don't comment on the second two as

a) you can only consider the notion of relict Neanderthals if you reject all evolutionary science and the associated fossil record

b) at best Lloyd Pye is as misinformed and misguided as Von Daniken and at worst a conman on a par with Sitchin, L Ron Hubbard and Rick Dyer.

First off.. depends on the review. If the Government Knows and has known, she will pass with flying colors as the evidence would be non-deniable. They may even provide a body.

The Florida Panther is not even in the same ball park. The Everglades are now protected. (Where they dwell.) And Florida brings in the biggest chunk of it's revenue from tourism. Most of it's Agriculture comes from Citrus orchards and strawberry farms. It doesn't really have a logging industry.

"you can only consider the notion of relict Neanderthals if you reject all evolutionary science and the associated fossil record " HELL NO, YOU KEEP THAT CRAP ON THE OTHER THREAD. You have hijacked enough threads with your Evolution preaching as is. If you want to debate the philosophy of Lloyd Pye, or Sitchin, and keep running around in circles about how Evolution is Proven and yadda yadda yadda, then make up a thread for it and I will be happy to debate you over there. But as for here, please stay on topic.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  CMcMillan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:35 am

Sorry TZ my fault.
I was just posting why some people feel that the governments are keeping it hidden.
I really wasn't going to discuss it or debate it since its just reasons why some people think so.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  CMcMillan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:38 am

i would be curious to examine the Areas Teddy R. setup as national forests and see if their was a correlation to BF sightings in those areas.

As we know Devils tower is a hot spot for UFO activity alien
(Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind, and Paul)
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Tzieth on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:44 am

CMcMillan wrote:i would be curious to examine the Areas Teddy R. setup as national forests and see if their was a correlation to BF sightings in those areas.

As we know Devils tower is a hot spot for UFO activity alien
(Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind, and Paul)

No problem lol. Wait.. Did he say the Florida Panther was dangerous? lol I just reread and I thought he meant endanger.

No Florida Panthers are not dangerious. They are about the size of a mid-sized dog. They are basically miniature cougars. And they are the least of your worries if you are in the Everglades.


Last edited by Tzieth on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:47 am

There is tool evidence that confirms the existence of the people who built Pumapunku. You are comparing apples and oranges since we are discussing means of confirming the existence of a species, not specific achievements.

The stones themselves (i.e. artifacts - see my original post) are in fact evidence of he people who built them. After around 24,000 years ago we find no evidence of Neanderthal tools or anything else they made.

We know that Neanderthals produced tools and objects that are easily distinguishable and preserved for thousands of years (beads, needles, flint tools etc. etc). We can also observe how that technology changed over time and if there was a move away from stone tools etc. then we would see a decline in that type of tool use and even without evidence it might be possible to infer a switch to tools made from materials that as you suggest are not easily preserved.

There is no evidence for this and what we actually see is a steady progression in tool development followed by a sudden disappearance of all tools and artifacts that is consistent with an extinction event.

Now, can we please get this thread back on topic?
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:04 pm

The Florida Panther is not even in the same ball park. The Everglades are now protected. (Where they dwell.) And Florida brings in the biggest chunk of it's revenue from tourism.

That's the very point I was making.

You have hijacked enough threads with your Evolution preaching as is.

The problem is that you cannot discuss the possibility of BF as a real animals outside a scientific context. That necessitates understanding possible BF identification using evolutionary science - there is no other alternative to reference.

So, if someone makes a claim relating to evolutionary science (such a CMcMillans relict Neanderthal idea) and that claim both counters the current evidence and comes from someone who outright rejects the science they reference, it is only right that those claims are set straight.

I've made my case and I'm happy to move on and get he thread back on topic.

However if anyone makes any false claims regarding BF that are based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation if science, I do not see why I should be obliged to keep stum. You can no more discuss BF without referening evolutionary science than you can send in your tax return without using mathematics.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Tzieth on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:08 pm

Woodwose wrote:There is tool evidence that confirms the existence of the people who built Pumapunku. You are comparing apples and oranges since we are discussing means of confirming the existence of a species, not specific achievements.

The stones themselves (i.e. artifacts - see my original post) are in fact evidence of he people who built them. After around 24,000 years ago we find no evidence of Neanderthal tools or anything else they made.

We know that Neanderthals produced tools and objects that are easily distinguishable and preserved for thousands of years (beads, needles, flint tools etc. etc). We can also observe how that technology changed over time and if there was a move away from stone tools etc. then we would see a decline in that type of tool use and even without evidence it might be possible to infer a switch to tools made from materials that as you suggest are not easily preserved.

There is no evidence for this and what we actually see is a steady progression in tool development followed by a sudden disappearance of all tools and artifacts that is consistent with an extinction event.

Now, can we please get this thread back on topic?

Do we really know why? They were hunting giants. Mammoths, Woolly Rhino's, Cave Bears and big Cats... They may simply not have needed the tools anymore. Or, who says the stopped? If we pushed them out of lands we inhabited and they moved into eastern Europe and across Russia, why would we find them? What we found, we found in caves. Or we dug where we new they have been. Is anyone digging in areas that no one has ever been?
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  CMcMillan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:10 pm

Wood,
I didn't make the claim.
See you are not reading the LINKS i set up.
I presented Possible reasons people feel.
I don't know. But this is about WHAT IFs
Apparently you don't understand WHAT IFs

You keep saying reject science. I don't reject science I QUESTION what is the real science we know.
Since SCIENCE is always changing what it knows

And we were getting back on the subject till you feel you need to Prove your theory and knowledge on science.

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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  CMcMillan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:12 pm

However if anyone makes any false claims regarding BF that are based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation if science, I do not see why I should be obliged to keep stum. You can no more discuss BF without referening evolutionary science than you can send in your tax return without using mathematics.

WOW now who is comparing Apples to Cotton Candy
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:14 pm

Tzieth wrote:No Florida Panthers are not dangerious. They are about the size of a mid-sized dog. They are basically miniature cougars. And they are the least of your worries if you are in the Everglades.

Any predator is potentially dangerous - even the domestic dog - and whilst accounts of Florida panther attacks are rare the anecdotal evidence is on a par with that of BF attacks:

http://www2.tbo.com/lifestyles/life/2008/nov/30/tr-panther-attacks-fact-or-fiction-ar-121991/

Attacks on humans by bears or cougars are also rare, but you would not say they are not dangerous and despite the risks, that doesn't seem to impact tourism in the habitats they allegedly share with BF.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:16 pm

CMcMillan wrote:
However if anyone makes any false claims regarding BF that are based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation if science, I do not see why I should be obliged to keep stum. You can no more discuss BF without referening evolutionary science than you can send in your tax return without using mathematics.

WOW now who is comparing Apples to Cotton Candy

My analogy stands. If it didn't you would have been able to explain why.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Tzieth on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:17 pm

Woodwose wrote:
The Florida Panther is not even in the same ball park. The Everglades are now protected. (Where they dwell.) And Florida brings in the biggest chunk of it's revenue from tourism.

That's the very point I was making.

You have hijacked enough threads with your Evolution preaching as is.

The problem is that you cannot discuss the possibility of BF as a real animals outside a scientific context. That necessitates understanding possible BF identification using evolutionary science - there is no other alternative to reference.

So, if someone makes a claim relating to evolutionary science (such a CMcMillans relict Neanderthal idea) and that claim both counters the current evidence and comes from someone who outright rejects the science they reference, it is only right that those claims are set straight.

I've made my case and I'm happy to move on and get he thread back on topic.

However if anyone makes any false claims regarding BF that are based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation if science, I do not see why I should be obliged to keep stum. You can no more discuss BF without referening evolutionary science than you can send in your tax return without using mathematics.

Seriously.. stop trolling. We are not stupid, we know exactly what you are trying to do. You just live to argue. This thread was especially made to NOT argue, but to speculate for or against a certain scenario. "Science" has no baring in this discussion as it deals more in political motive with science being whatever either Ketchum or Sykes finds. If CMcMillin wants to say Neanderthal, then he guess is just as good as yours. If I want to say they are Hariry Smurf's, So be it.. It's more of the Ramifications of what will happen if another kind of Human is confirmed.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:24 pm

Tzieth wrote:They may simply not have needed the tools anymore. Or, who says the stopped? If we pushed them out of lands we inhabited and they moved into eastern Europe and across Russia, why would we find them? What we found, we found in caves. Or we dug where we new they have been. Is anyone digging in areas that no one has ever been?

We would see evidence of tool use gradually disappearing. We are already able to trace how Neanderthals moved throughout Europe and the Mediteranian, so we should also be able to trace any movement into more isolated regions.

I thought you didn't want to discus this evolutionary BS (your words not mine) anymore?
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:31 pm

Tzieth wrote:It's more of the Ramifications of what will happen if another kind of Human is confirmed.

Interesting that you actually ignore my posts when I say something relating to the OP.

This thread was derailed the minute CMcmillan introduced relict Neanderthals and pseudoscience.

If you want to have a discussion where no one is allowed to offer arguments that contradict your opinions, just let me know and I'll sling my hook. That attitude will however be the death of this forum.
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