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The Sasquatch Conspiracy

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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Tzieth on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:35 pm

Woodwose wrote:
Tzieth wrote:No Florida Panthers are not dangerious. They are about the size of a mid-sized dog. They are basically miniature cougars. And they are the least of your worries if you are in the Everglades.

Any predator is potentially dangerous - even the domestic dog - and whilst accounts of Florida panther attacks are rare the anecdotal evidence is on a par with that of BF attacks:

http://www2.tbo.com/lifestyles/life/2008/nov/30/tr-panther-attacks-fact-or-fiction-ar-121991/

Attacks on humans by bears or cougars are also rare, but you would not say they are not dangerous and despite the risks, that doesn't seem to impact tourism in the habitats they allegedly share with BF.

I can say they are not a danger because they are seriously endangered. But okay, yes they would be dangerous to a child. But after alligators, bull-sharks, crocodiles (Yes Florida has crocs.) pythons, Black-bears, pygmy-rattlers, Eastern Diamondback Rattlers, Coral Snakes, Black Widow, Brown Widow, Red Widow, Chilean Recluse, Brown Recluse, Brazilian Wandering Spider (Florida has those now as well.) Water Moccasins, Coyotes and true cougars. Panthers are the least of your worries.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:40 pm

I agree.

Given that BF attacks are therefore on a par with Florida panther attacks, doesn't that undermine the suggestion that the government might be covering up BF in order to prevent tourists from avoiding national parks out of fear?
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  CMcMillan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:42 pm

Seriously I derailed it because I link to some other sites Ideas behind why the government is hiding stuff of Bigfoot and they Mention relict Neanderthals and pseudoscience.

Seriously you need to stop taking everything so seriously.

If you really didn't understand this thread it was Government Conspiracy !!!
You know like we didn't land on the moon or did we? Who shot JR, area 51...
Its Hypothetical seriously wood its just for fun discussions and floating out Ideas and see where they go for fun and maybe some seriousness mixed in.

Just because someone posts something doesn't mean they believe it.

But again I tell you I QUESTION and WILL always Question what we THINK we know. That is what Science and free thinkers are suppose to do.
Question things.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  CMcMillan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:47 pm

Ok Wood think about this.

What would the Public do if the government said Bigfoot is real and the national parks are its areas.

1.) People would want to know more about it.
you would have more people tromping through the woods looking for them and getting hurt.
2.) What other things is the government for years denying.
Area 51, Aliens, Ghosts and supernatural.
3.) What if the the Missing 411 is real!!! How scary is that? That Sasquatches are taking children and people right out of TENTS.
Right now it is an unkown
But all sudden all those Missing Hikers and stuff ... people would want JUSTICE for the missing kids and people. People would HUNT bigfoot and kill them or they would want some kind of justice.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:01 pm

I don't see why the situation is any different to that regarding known potentially dangerous or endangered species.

Do we see mass extermination or revenge killings when someone is attacked by a bear or cougar?

Do we see a glut of tourists tramping through the woods looking for those endangered species known to inhabit national park?

Even if any of the above did occur, it should be possible to keep them in check through education, law enforcement and forest management. If anything making BF public knowledge would make it easier to do this.

Your more fanciful 'what ifs' aren't worth serious consideration without hard evidence.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Tzieth on Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:04 pm

Woodwose wrote:
Tzieth wrote:It's more of the Ramifications of what will happen if another kind of Human is confirmed.

Interesting that you actually ignore my posts when I say something relating to the OP.

This thread was derailed the minute CMcmillan introduced relict Neanderthals and pseudoscience.

If you want to have a discussion where no one is allowed to offer arguments that contradict your opinions, just let me know and I'll sling my hook. That attitude will however be the death of this forum.

Nice you force me to address this then. There are two reasons you would not find tools.

1) If they moved out, they would have taken their tools with them. But their "Tools" were basically rocks with little sign of manipulation. Unlike say, Clovis who chipped away to create a design they wanted, Neanderthals used rocks shaped a certain way. If these rocks were at the end of a pole to make a spear, the wood would have long rotted away or blended into the forest. And how do you tell the arrow heads from any other rock?

2) They started using and then making our tools. Are we still using sticks and stones? Then why should they? And to even say that the "tools" found were Neanderthal is speculation in it's self... They could have just as easily been cro magnon and the Neanderthal remains found could have been victims who were ritually buried by us.

In the case of Neanderthals, they would be exactly in the environments that they are reported to be in today... Vastly unpopulated and cold regions.. The caucuses, Mongolia, mid Russia and Siberia.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  CMcMillan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:09 pm

Do we see mass extermination or revenge killings when someone is attacked by a bear or cougar?

Yes actually we do KILL BEARS AND Other animals that we KNOW have attacked and Killed HUMANS. That would be considered a Revenge Killing or a Killing to control the fact said animal has tasted Human flesh and Blood.

Now take a look at Missing 411 and if it is TRUE then we have missing people at the hands of Bigfoot.
Sorry would scare the crap out of me if i had kids and I wanted to go camping.

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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  CMcMillan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:11 pm

Your more fanciful 'what ifs' aren't worth serious consideration without hard evidence.
Perhaps for you they are not. But others I am sure they are.


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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Tzieth on Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:24 pm

Woodwose wrote:I agree.

Given that BF attacks are therefore on a par with Florida panther attacks, doesn't that undermine the suggestion that the government might be covering up BF in order to prevent tourists from avoiding national parks out of fear?

Well there is that book missing 411.

But no, the cover-up would be because of our infra-structure. What it would do to our industry which is already in bad shape. If Sykes paper is complete and passes peer review, and finds that.. For the sake of argument we'll say an evolved version of Neanderthal or Homo-Heidelbergis. Something in the genus Homo... And he reveals where all his samples came from. World Opinion would then demand that we take steps, that might hurt us even more as a country. Mining for coal in the Appalachians might be harmful to them. Logging the Pacific North West, might ruin their habitat. Fertilizer from farms might poison their water supply and god forbid cutting down forest to make new farms. Drilling for Oil might upset their hunting and damage an eco-system that they have grown accustomed to.

Unlike with the spotted owl or Florida Panther, these things are technically "Human" there for killing off or upsetting their habitat might be looked at as some sort of atrocity by the U.N.

England has nothing to lose in this study. It would not effect their infrastructure at all.

Now if the U.S. Government decided to fund Ketchum and even give her everything to pass her peer review with flying colors.. (Maybe even fix it.) Then they call the shots. They have full control over it and they can declare certain area's Sasquatch free (Weather they are or not.)
This may force Oxford to no longer concentrait on the North American Sasquatch and direct their attention to Yeti and Almas, Yeren, etc...

I am saying that if there was a cover-up, they HAVE to come clean now with a forign University doing the study. In this case they would have no choice but to try to bring it to light on their own terms. Usurping Ketchums study and keeping it "Ketchums Study" is an easy way out.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:45 pm

1) Neanderthal tools are very much like those of early H. Sapiens Sapiens and other advanced Homo species. So we are talking about stones with obvious signs of manipulation (napped arrow heads etc.)

2) If they moved away from using these tools we would see that transition in the archaeological record. As mentioned previously what we see is a progression of increasingly more efficient stone tools and then nothing.

3) Neanderthal tools differ enough from other human species, making it possible to differentiate who made them, even when you find sites that have been occupied by both Neanderthals and other Homo species. In the same way that you wouldn't confuse a medieval Chinese sword with one from a European culture, it is possible to see stylistic differences in the tools and artifacts made by different homo species.

4) Similarly Neanderthal habitation is easy to distinguish and in the same way we ca trace their movements throughout Europe, we would be able to trace any movement into more remote regions. It isn't as if archaeologists just wait to stumble on evidence, they go looking for it.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:48 pm

CMcMillan wrote:Yes actually we do KILL BEARS AND Other animals that we KNOW have attacked and Killed HUMANS.

Yes I know. So why isn't there a government conspiracy to hide bear populations?
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  CMcMillan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:58 pm

~LOL~

Seriously .... We are dealing with a species in Sasquatch that MAY BE MORE HUMAN that is why.

Bears are not HUMAN nor Mountain lions.

The assumption is Sasquatch's think and reason like a HUMAN i.e: Missing 411
AS TZ said it is a completely different thought process going on as apposed to your typical animal.

But by your statements in other threads you want to classify Sasquatch's as APES. I think several of us don't see them as an APE.

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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Woodwose on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:06 pm

That's a rather unfortunate anthropocentric attitude to take.

And for the record, humans are apes.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Tzieth on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:07 pm

Woodwose wrote:1) Neanderthal tools are very much like those of early H. Sapiens Sapiens and other advanced Homo species. So we are talking about stones with obvious signs of manipulation (napped arrow heads etc.)

2) If they moved away from using these tools we would see that transition in the archaeological record. As mentioned previously what we see is a progression of increasingly more efficient stone tools and then nothing.

3) Neanderthal tools differ enough from other human species, making it possible to differentiate who made them, even when you find sites that have been occupied by both Neanderthals and other Homo species. In the same way that you wouldn't confuse a medieval Chinese sword with one from a European culture, it is possible to see stylistic differences in the tools and artifacts made by different homo species.

4) Similarly Neanderthal habitation is easy to distinguish and in the same way we ca trace their movements throughout Europe, we would be able to trace any movement into more remote regions. It isn't as if archaeologists just wait to stumble on evidence, they go looking for it.

No they do stumble on it lol.. Archaeologists look for civilizations. When they look, they are looking for a specific thing based on Historical accounts. But yes, mostly they just stumble onto things. Someone digs a well or a construction project uncovers something and the Archaeologists are notified. As for manipulation.. Go look up "Neanderthal tools." The only possible manipulation is wear and tear on how they were used. Other than that, they are just rocks.

As for tracking them? How??? Once they entered the forest environments (That are still the same today as back then.) you would lose all trace. We still stick to cities and towns. The sightings of Almas are in very remote areas with no roads going to them.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Tzieth on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:08 pm

Woodwose wrote:That's a rather unfortunate anthropocentric attitude to take.

And for the record, humans are apes.

By your record humans are apes. Not mine
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  CMcMillan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:11 pm

TZ,
don't forget If we find a flaked off rock like they used and small we may take it for Native American Tool.
its amazing how people think we have Archaeologists walking in the forests looking for fossils. LOL


Yea yea Humans are APES blablabla.
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  DPinkerton on Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:06 pm

H. neanderthalensis did not evolve into H. sapiens sapiens. Neanderthalensis supposedly lived from 350,000 to 30,000 (24,000) years ago. Sapiens sapiens lived from 200,000 to present. That is at least a 170,000 year overlap in which they shared the Earth. It is also suspected that sapiens and neanderthalensis interbred. I imagine if they are interbreeding...it would be very difficult to establish who was using the tools and very possibly they were shared.

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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Tzieth on Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:59 am

CMcMillan wrote:TZ,
don't forget If we find a flaked off rock like they used and small we may take it for Native American Tool.
its amazing how people think we have Archaeologists walking in the forests looking for fossils. LOL


Yea yea Humans are APES blablabla.

I been looking at pictures of Neanderthal tools all day. Many are "suspected" Neanderthal tools. lol

Honestly. if I saw one, I would think "Rock"

But I have finally figured out Woodwoose. I don't think he means to be a troll. I think the thought of Bigfoot being anything other than an ape scares the hell out of him. For that matter "What if's" in general scare him. He has himself so convinced that Theory of Evolution is undeniable law, that he excludes the most important and consistent law of them all... Murphy's law.

He puts too much faith in a controversial science that is even controversial among it's own peers. If any or all Bigfoot-type creatures are both the same Hominids on record and even evolved variants, then that would pretty much shatter his world were it would not effect other evolutionists.

As for his view that there would be overwhelming evidence of a Migration. Two possibilities counter that. The first is that they may have been all over the Northern Hemisphere to begin with. The brunt of Russia's population is in the West. It's East is even more rural than our West. A large number of Neanderthals could thrive there and no one would know. And they would no doubt be in Canada and the upper PNW as well. (We do get the reports.)

The second possibility is that since we discovered them, what happened? Though the first Neanderthal skull was found in 1827, they thought it was a cave bear. It was not until 1886 that complete skeletons were found of two individuals. And then war after war all over the world, Franco Prussian war, Russo-Prussian war, Russo Japanese war Spanish American war and inter country tensions were high after the 1890's every country though it's neighbor was out to get them, so they started forming Pacts and alliances. I doubt much serious research was being done at that time. You had two incidental discoveries in 1899 and then in 1908. And then WWI. After WWI a great Depression that it took WWII to get out of. So do you really think anyone was looking? After WWII you had the cold war and the Iron curtain.

So what exactly would Archaeologists know? lol

The later tools they contribute to being Neanderthal ,( Mousterian Type) does not have any conclusive proof that they belonged to them. They were found in mass grave sites along with bones of various other animals.

That could have been us, digging a pit to honor our Hunting or war Gods, and throwing in our hunt and or our defeated as sacrifice then offering our possessions to further appease our Gods . Where was the common sense on that one? Oh is it because just behavior simply isn't Human? lol Holocaust, Sarajevo, Rewanda... We also know the Celts did the same thing, but no one makes the connection? Most likely any Homo-Sapiens-Sapiens that were in contact with Neanderthals were Celts.
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Moving to moderated.

Post  Tzieth on Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:07 am

I am moving this thread to the moderated section as the Mods wish to keep it on Topic... I will call it Sasquatch Conspiracy II

As for this one? I guess everyone is free to take it where-ever lol


Last edited by Tzieth on Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  Blondie1 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:22 am

Thanks TZ!!!
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Re: The Sasquatch Conspiracy

Post  RealBigFoot on Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:37 am

Woodwose wrote:There is tool evidence that confirms the existence of the people who built Pumapunku. You are comparing apples and oranges since we are discussing means of confirming the existence of a species, not specific achievements.

The stones themselves (i.e. artifacts - see my original post) are in fact evidence of he people who built them. After around 24,000 years ago we find no evidence of Neanderthal tools or anything else they made.

We know that Neanderthals produced tools and objects that are easily distinguishable and preserved for thousands of years (beads, needles, flint tools etc. etc). We can also observe how that technology changed over time and if there was a move away from stone tools etc. then we would see a decline in that type of tool use and even without evidence it might be possible to infer a switch to tools made from materials that as you suggest are not easily preserved.
There is no evidence for this and what we actually see is a steady progression in tool development followed by a sudden disappearance of all tools and artifacts that is consistent with an extinction event.

Now, can we please get this thread back on topic?

Perhaps the reason tools are not found today is because the Neanderthals/Sasquatch is still using them ? Wink

Getting back to the topic now - A government cover up in the case of the Sasquatch would be for one reason only in my opinion and that is religion. If the Sasquatch DNA identified it as human or very close to human then it would appear to prove evolution to be the pathway of our existence. Religion or belief in the single diety as it is there-for could be dismissed as a hoax. How would the population handle a bombshell like that ?? Good enough reason in my book to cover up the evidence.
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