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Researching ideas?

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Researching ideas?

Post  Big Jim Jr on Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:56 am

Ok, I guess it is time for me to post something in this forum, especially since I was like the fifth person to join it. I have some ideas I want to ping off other people like me who are not "professional researchers". I have always thought bigfoot exists and while I have never seen one, or even a foot print until last week's Elbe tracks, I have had some WTF moments in the woods. Considering I have been hunting, fishing, trapping, camping and hiking since before I could walk and was packed around by my Dad, I have spent 38 years in the outdoors without seeing one or a track. I am pretty familiar with just about anything that walks, flies, swims, or crawls. I always try to view both sides of a story and did not just fall off the turnip truck or with the last rain drop. So I do my best to ensure I have a good idea of anything before deciding to comment on it. After last week I am going to start spending more time looking for evidence of bigfoot. I am going to build some tools that can be taken in the field fairly easily. One I am going to build is a measuring device to see how much pressure it takes to make a print sink in the same depth as a track. Like a spring loaded pole with a scale on it that I can put my weight on to see how deep a track of similar size sinks in with "x" number of pounds. I also want to see if I can figure out an easy way of casting tracks without destroying them in the process. I have some other ideas of ways to debunk evidence in mind too. I want to make sure that if I find something or record something, it is a bigfoot and not a hoaxer. That was my reason for going to the Elbe trackway. To see if I could think of any way the tracks could have been hoaxed. What are some things the rest of you use to rule out hoaxes? Oh, if anyone hears of something and can't get out to see it, let me know. If it is in Western Wa, I would love to take a look along with pictures and video. What do you think is best casting material? We used plaster of paris on the child size tracks in Elbe and got good detail. Since the last time I casted a track was a deer track in Boy Scouts and we got actual callous like details, I think we did ok.
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Re: Researching ideas?

Post  CMcMillan on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:47 am

For Tracks,
If their is ZERO variation in the track in that they look the same in every step, this would indicate a STAMP or a Clown Like Shoe.

Some of the issues I can see with the measure.
You have to know the weather conditions of When the print was made.
If it was raining or just rained the ground may be softer things like that will always need to be taken in account.

I am always amazed at people going its fake a person made them. If they were stamped by people you would see evidence of the hoaxer.
I don't think we need CSI out to see if it was hoaxed.


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Welcome Big Jim

Post  Blondie1 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:17 pm

Welcome although a bit belated. You went to see the Elbe tracks? What did you think of them?

Also can you tell about your strange experiences in the woods.
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Hey Welcome on board Big Jim

Post  ***** on Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:09 pm

Hey Big Jim,

Thanks for posting. I'll try to put together a response to your question later today. I'm a firm believer in approaching all evidence with a skeptical eye, trying to rule everything else out first. I've found the best way to conduct research is to first just get yourself out there, sounds like you do that already. Second, I tend to target waterways, as I think they use creeks, rivers, streams, as corridors of travel. Also powerlines..

In my humble opinion, I believe all cameras are a complete waste of time and resources at this point. For whatever reason, regardless of the effort in concealment, strategy they are detected and avoided. I think cameras worn on your person, or visible in any way, are a deterrent to interaction. Firearms are a deterrent as well. I still believe targeting areas that are supportive habitat, and home to recurrent sightings and positive interaction with humans are the best source of evidence. I would suggest limiting the number of researchers to a total of 2 or 3 people, setting up a typical camp, cooking, talking, maybe some music/singing just overall un-expectant (??? word??LOL) demeanor yields the best results. Cool

The most commonly misinterpreted I think are audio, and footprint evidence. I've seen lots of researchers mistake overlapping bear tracks, elk wallows, for Squatch evidence. I've also hear a lot of audio that could be other animals.

Cm makes a good point about substrate, and how easily impacted by environmental conditions it is. The more I look into, these Elbe tracks-- I've spoken with onsite BFRO investigator--- the more I'm buying in.

To share a bit of that: The onsite investigator addressed a question posed on this site, regarding toe stems, or lack thereof in the prints. He stated that there were many tracks that were not photographed that did show toe stems, and that there was a broad distribution of tracks in different substrates, at different speeds, that exhibited all aspects of the foot, including dermal ridges, and scarring. They found prints that showed the subject traveling at different speeds, and using it's foot differently as it did so. I won't rule out hoax, but I'm of the opinion, these are real biological feet, they'd have to be from either a man with some of the biggest feet in the world, or a Sasquatch.

Glad you are posting now! Welcome!

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Re: Researching ideas?

Post  Big Jim Jr on Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:08 am

I have been "researching" for quite a while I guess, but really just getting back into the field again. I approach any report as hoax, then prove it real or real and try to prove it as a hoax. By doing that, I feel I am less likely to miss something or get hoaxed. I try to see from every angle. Then I also start from the outside and work inwards. If I stumble on something odd, I step back and look for the start before moving ahead. Like when tracking an animal or following a blood trail. Start at first spot, move slow and look around. The Elbe tracks were very interesting. I know that area very well as I have hunted it for 20 years. I had my first WTF moment just a few miles from there along with what I am pretty sure was a knuckle impression in a road cut just another mile or two from the WTF moment and the new tracks. I know a person who had a supposed sighting just back up the highway near Eatonville cutoff. Plus tons of reports over the years near there. So I believe the tracks are real. I still have some doubts about the littlefeet tracks but once the experts decide and I compare them to my nephew, I will make up my mind. I have learned what to look for in blatant fake tracks but these did not look like those. I also tried several things to see if I could duplicate them. I could not sink in the mud as deep without bouncing my foot deeper. I could not stride as far without trotting and that left my tracks shallower. The mud was slick too. Easy to fall. One thing I didn't understand was how there was two pathways used without more evidence. The way the tracks went did not make sense to me. But it appears there may have been TWO adults which is what I thought may have happened. Which would also explain the littlefeet paths too. But no one has flat out said there was two yet. I wish I had been there a day or two sooner. The casting pretty much destroyed the tracks. I did research the lake level and from what I could find the lake was falling. The soil was drying out on top of the bed, but the cut was still very wet. So the soil was still similar to when the tracks were made. As for my WTF moments my first was up the old 1000 line in Eatonville. I had followed a set of fresh bull elk tracks into the timber. I found a nice little clearing about 75-100yds across. The tracks skirted it then moved into brush. I found an old tall stump and decided to lean back on it and watch the clearing until dark. After a bit the woods grew still, no birds etc. I then heard something moving through the brush behind me. I had the wind pretty much quartering me and I thought the noise was the bull coming back. I slid my safety off and waited. Just before it got into the open, the wind shifted and blew right at the noise. All of a sudden something screamed/screeched at me. I swear to God I levitated six feet off the ground. I distinctly remember my trigger travelling an inch even though my gun did not go off. I never saw watch screamed. It did not run off, nothing. It was too close to dark and I was spooked so I beat feet. Over the years I thought it was a loon or other bird that screamed. Until one night listening to supposed bigfoot calls. I heard exactly the same thing. Another time I was in a hot bigfoot area, kinda do research with a local bigfoot group and Fred Bradshaw, now deceased. I was by myself when I heard some very strange calls. I had cell signal so called Fred up. He said that it sounded like bigfoot to him and he said he had a few sightings over the years. I don't know what is was. That same area, a year later with a buddy just sitting. All of a sudden we felt watched. Then I swore something was coming up behind us. Spinning around with light and pulling my pistol nothing was there, but we could still feel eyes. Buddy was starting to freak out so we left. My latest WTF was last year. I had just shot a bull elk up near Mt St Helens in the Toutle unit. I was alone and it was close to dark. Called a buddy for help and started field dressing. Since I am odd, I thanked the bull for feeding us etc. But as I was taking pictures I heard something in the brush above me. One of the pics shows me looking up the hill even. Since I had to run off the bull's cows, I did not know what was there. But it stayed there for hours. I talked to it, on my phone, to the bull but it never left. I was nervous and as it got darker I kept moving my pistol closer to my lap. I killed my batteries ib my light so I sat back to stump with the elk between me and my noise maker. I never saw anything. No eye shine nothing. The next month while elk hunting with my wife we were literally feet from where I shot my bull when something whistled at us. I thought it was another hunter but could find no one. About two miles away and an hour or two later, we got whistled at again. And still saw nothing. Very weird. Anyway this post is huge.
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Re: Researching ideas?

Post  Big Jim Jr on Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:20 am

I spoke with a BFRO investigator about the latest WTF and he thinks it likely a bigfoot was watching me. Then when we came back the next month, it recognised us and whistled to get our attention. I had told what ever was making the noise the month before it could have everything I left behind once I left. So maybe it was hoping for a free meal again? I have plotted sightings on google earth and use the BFRO database to look for patterns in sightings. I have a very high pattern recognition mind according to multiple IQ and other tests I have taken over the years. You are right about most sightings following river or creek bottoms. I also did a study of 100 reports in Washington and looked up the moon phase for them The most sightings occur around full and new moons. So I try to research around them. With the wealth of data on the web, it is easy to pattern sightings. Now I just need to get out more and see one.
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ideas

Post  MylesLI on Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:40 am

Big Jm,

Great insghts...thanks...I'm planning a trip and your thoughts will really help us

Myles

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Re: Researching ideas?

Post  Holt on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:16 pm

Big Jim Jr wrote:I spoke with a BFRO investigator about the latest WTF and he thinks it likely a bigfoot was watching me. Then when we came back the next month, it recognised us and whistled to get our attention. I had told what ever was making the noise the month before it could have everything I left behind once I left. So maybe it was hoping for a free meal again? I have plotted sightings on google earth and use the BFRO database to look for patterns in sightings. I have a very high pattern recognition mind according to multiple IQ and other tests I have taken over the years. You are right about most sightings following river or creek bottoms. I also did a study of 100 reports in Washington and looked up the moon phase for them The most sightings occur around full and new moons. So I try to research around them. With the wealth of data on the web, it is easy to pattern sightings. Now I just need to get out more and see one.

You have had some great experiences. You could probably have your own study site right there and record you interactions with them.
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Re: Researching ideas?

Post  Big Jim Jr on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:50 pm

I will actually be hunting that area again this year. The BFRO researcher I talked with wants to go down with us and check things out. But with fire danger, work, illnesses and other stuff we have not had a chance to poke around. I really want to go down this weekend since it is the full moon. With the river only a mile or so down the ridge and the dry summer we had, I would imagine things could be interesting. But because of lack of rain, I am pretty sure the area is closed to access. I know the Weyerhaeuser land is closed and it surrounds most of the state and federal land out there. This year I will be keeping my camera close and bringing my voice recorder. I want to make or get a parabolic mic for it too.
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Re: Researching ideas?

Post  Blondie1 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:04 am

Are you gonna take them any food?
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Re: Researching ideas?

Post  Big Jim Jr on Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:33 am

Have not thought too much about that. I could try leaving something out for it or them I guess. I usually cook some potatoes in the camp fire, heavily wrapped in foil that I just let slow cook in the coals for making home fries the next morning. I could wrap some bacon around one and sit it to the edge so something could grab it without getting burnt. The foil might take a finger print even. Since al of my hunting buddies and family that ate deer and elk liver and hearts died this year, I could set that out someplace where a bear or cougar won't get it. I have heard that is choice edibles for bigfoot supposedly. Maybe tie a piece of fishing line to it and dangle it ten foot off the ground with the line leading to a bite indicator for fishing that I have. The strike indicator will buzz or flash and can be any distance away from the bait. Maybe hang a glow stick near it even. Now I have a ton of ideas running through my head. But first need to harvest a deer or use human food. I could even camp near the Elbe area since that is state land. And I know exactly where a great spot to camp is up there, overlooking a couple valleys. It is not open until end of November for muzzleloader deer hunting, but might be open for elk starting the 6th, next weekend. But need rain, badly. I wonder if anyone is up there researching next week. Don't like to crowd anyone.
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Re: Researching ideas?

Post  Green911 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:02 pm

I did an experiment years ago, while at a Girl Scout camp. I raked a part of the fire road that was next to the side of the camp where I was staying. The dirt was smooth. Went back the next morning to see what kind of critters walked across it during the night. Saw all sorts of tracks to include insects, deer and raccoons.

Now taking that idea, and putting an assortment of food on a pole in the center of something like that, ie apples, jerky, salmon etc... Then placing game cameras around the area. One might have a grea opportunity for some good evidence collection.

Thoughts? elephant
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