Why are we having Form wars?

Over on the other sasseekers forum
Kel writes the following:

Geez! I've had it with Shawn's BFE blog. (And while I'm ranting, would somebody also fix this pale green and nearly invisible font color?) Anyway, I don't mind sorting thru the BFE posts, but why the hell does he let the Comments run amuck like that?! I'm all done trying to fish thru them for anything worthwhile. And the forum there? What a sad waste! I refuse to have any discussion that can be moderatedby by the Better Citizen's Guild ... so just use the UN-MODERATED forum, right? Wrong! There's no such thing. sorry for any typos, but I seriously cannot read what I'm typing!

First, Kel claims she doesn't like the BLOG well the BLOG is un-moderated so you get what you get right?
Then she claims she doesn't like Moderated Forums But doesn't want to use the Un-Moderated?

Shawn to me is very open about letting people post what ever on the blogs. Yes we get a lot of BS in them But you either have Moderated or NOT. There is no balance in the internet for civil chats.
In the forums I don't think we are So much the Better Citizen's Guild here I think the mods are trying to keep chats civil and not personal attacks on each other.
We have a few people that don't agree with some of the so called fringe Ideas that TZ, Myself and others Like to talk about.
As long as we all are civil and not bash a persons beliefs I don't see why we can not have good discussions.
I dislike the out right well that is Bias crap some of the people say. Because in the end any information we post is going to be Bias one side or the other.

CMcMillan wrote:Over on the other sasseekers forum
Kel writes the following:

Geez! I've had it with Shawn's BFE blog. (And while I'm ranting, would somebody also fix this pale green and nearly invisible font color?) Anyway, I don't mind sorting thru the BFE posts, but why the hell does he let the Comments run amuck like that?! I'm all done trying to fish thru them for anything worthwhile. And the forum there? What a sad waste! I refuse to have any discussion that can be moderatedby by the Better Citizen's Guild ... so just use the UN-MODERATED forum, right? Wrong! There's no such thing. sorry for any typos, but I seriously cannot read what I'm typing!

First, Kel claims she doesn't like the BLOG well the BLOG is un-moderated so you get what you get right?
Then she claims she doesn't like Moderated Forums But doesn't want to use the Un-Moderated?

Shawn to me is very open about letting people post what ever on the blogs. Yes we get a lot of BS in them But you either have Moderated or NOT. There is no balance in the internet for civil chats.
In the forums I don't think we are So much the Better Citizen's Guild here I think the mods are trying to keep chats civil and not personal attacks on each other.
We have a few people that don't agree with some of the so called fringe Ideas that TZ, Myself and others Like to talk about.
As long as we all are civil and not bash a persons beliefs I don't see why we can not have good discussions.
I dislike the out right well that is Bias crap some of the people say. Because in the end any information we post is going to be Bias one side or the other.

Forum WARS? I think that's rather inflammatory. I simply said, as many, many others have, that I think Shawn has let the Blog Comments go out of control (to taterhole hell). So I've had it with reading them. You are correct ~ "you get what you get", and as I have previously noted, it's not my business to tell Shawn how to run his blog. I don't agree with his style, but that's my problem... and so I've quit reading Blog Comments. BFD.

As for the Better Citizen's Guild (certain moderators) here in the Forum ~ I've witnessed too many instances of what I feel was uneven and unfair treatment of any comment some perceived as skeptical. The same jerk that screams about being civil is the same jerk calling others assholes. Yes, I've saved copies, and yes, I'd be happy to publish them, but there is no UNMODERATED place to put them. My comments protesting profane and unfair treatment by mods are deleted.

There is an unmoderated forum section. You either are or you are not. I think the majority here are adults capable of avoiding those topics that disturb them. They are also free to block any member that offends them. Why are the mods allowed to police the UNmoderated zone?

PS to Blondie: PLEASE PLEASE fix that font "over there"! When you are typing a comment, it posts in very pale green against a white background. My poor eyeballs can't take it!

Kel wrote:

CMcMillan wrote:Over on the other sasseekers forum
Kel writes the following:

Geez! I've had it with Shawn's BFE blog. (And while I'm ranting, would somebody also fix this pale green and nearly invisible font color?) Anyway, I don't mind sorting thru the BFE posts, but why the hell does he let the Comments run amuck like that?! I'm all done trying to fish thru them for anything worthwhile. And the forum there? What a sad waste! I refuse to have any discussion that can be moderatedby by the Better Citizen's Guild ... so just use the UN-MODERATED forum, right? Wrong! There's no such thing. sorry for any typos, but I seriously cannot read what I'm typing!

First, Kel claims she doesn't like the BLOG well the BLOG is un-moderated so you get what you get right?
Then she claims she doesn't like Moderated Forums But doesn't want to use the Un-Moderated?

Shawn to me is very open about letting people post what ever on the blogs. Yes we get a lot of BS in them But you either have Moderated or NOT. There is no balance in the internet for civil chats.
In the forums I don't think we are So much the Better Citizen's Guild here I think the mods are trying to keep chats civil and not personal attacks on each other.
We have a few people that don't agree with some of the so called fringe Ideas that TZ, Myself and others Like to talk about.
As long as we all are civil and not bash a persons beliefs I don't see why we can not have good discussions.
I dislike the out right well that is Bias crap some of the people say. Because in the end any information we post is going to be Bias one side or the other.

Forum WARS? I think that's rather inflammatory. I simply said, as many, many others have, that I think Shawn has let the Blog Comments go out of control (to taterhole hell). So I've had it with reading them. You are correct ~ "you get what you get", and as I have previously noted, it's not my business to tell Shawn how to run his blog. I don't agree with his style, but that's my problem... and so I've quit reading Blog Comments. BFD.

As for the Better Citizen's Guild (certain moderators) here in the Forum ~ I've witnessed too many instances of what I feel was uneven and unfair treatment of any comment some perceived as skeptical. The same jerk that screams about being civil is the same jerk calling others assholes. Yes, I've saved copies, and yes, I'd be happy to publish them, but there is no UNMODERATED place to put them. My comments protesting profane and unfair treatment by mods are deleted.

There is an unmoderated forum section. You either are or you are not. I think the majority here are adults capable of avoiding those topics that disturb them. They are also free to block any member that offends them. Why are the mods allowed to police the UNmoderated zone?

PS to Blondie: PLEASE PLEASE fix that font "over there"! When you are typing a comment, it posts in very pale green against a white background. My poor eyeballs can't take it!

To the best of my knowledge, they aren't. If anyone is policing the un-modded section, it would have to be Shaun.. Or is it Shawn> (I get his spelling messed up)

Kel wrote:

CMcMillan wrote:Over on the other sasseekers forum
Kel writes the following:

Geez! I've had it with Shawn's BFE blog. (And while I'm ranting, would somebody also fix this pale green and nearly invisible font color?) Anyway, I don't mind sorting thru the BFE posts, but why the hell does he let the Comments run amuck like that?! I'm all done trying to fish thru them for anything worthwhile. And the forum there? What a sad waste! I refuse to have any discussion that can be moderatedby by the Better Citizen's Guild ... so just use the UN-MODERATED forum, right? Wrong! There's no such thing. sorry for any typos, but I seriously cannot read what I'm typing!

First, Kel claims she doesn't like the BLOG well the BLOG is un-moderated so you get what you get right?
Then she claims she doesn't like Moderated Forums But doesn't want to use the Un-Moderated?

Shawn to me is very open about letting people post what ever on the blogs. Yes we get a lot of BS in them But you either have Moderated or NOT. There is no balance in the internet for civil chats.
In the forums I don't think we are So much the Better Citizen's Guild here I think the mods are trying to keep chats civil and not personal attacks on each other.
We have a few people that don't agree with some of the so called fringe Ideas that TZ, Myself and others Like to talk about.
As long as we all are civil and not bash a persons beliefs I don't see why we can not have good discussions.
I dislike the out right well that is Bias crap some of the people say. Because in the end any information we post is going to be Bias one side or the other.

Forum WARS? I think that's rather inflammatory. I simply said, as many, many others have, that I think Shawn has let the Blog Comments go out of control (to taterhole hell). So I've had it with reading them. You are correct ~ "you get what you get", and as I have previously noted, it's not my business to tell Shawn how to run his blog. I don't agree with his style, but that's my problem... and so I've quit reading Blog Comments. BFD.

As for the Better Citizen's Guild (certain moderators) here in the Forum ~ I've witnessed too many instances of what I feel was uneven and unfair treatment of any comment some perceived as skeptical. The same jerk that screams about being civil is the same jerk calling others assholes. Yes, I've saved copies, and yes, I'd be happy to publish them, but there is no UNMODERATED place to put them. My comments protesting profane and unfair treatment by mods are deleted.

There is an unmoderated forum section. You either are or you are not. I think the majority here are adults capable of avoiding those topics that disturb them. They are also free to block any member that offends them. Why are the mods allowed to police the UNmoderated zone?

PS to Blondie: PLEASE PLEASE fix that font "over there"! When you are typing a comment, it posts in very pale green against a white background. My poor eyeballs can't take it!

As far as I understand the Un-Mod area is not being Moderated by any of the Forum mods.
But you say you don't like the BLOG because of all the UnModerated B.S. Then you complain about Moderation in the forum? Are you really complaining because you think that their is UNfair Treatment?
I have gotten Moderated when I have written something that was Instigating or I have gotten spoken too.
So You MAY think its only certain people being Moderated But you are not correct.
What I ment by Forum wars you run over to another Forum to complain about this one. Because that other Forum doesn't like the Topics that some of use enjoy discussing The so called Pseudo science or other fringe stuff. So you were looking to get agreements.
You could have Posted Here your concerens about this Forum or Blog.
If you actually read some of the Posts here many have commented on the crap in the Blog as well.

CMcMillan wrote:
As far as I understand the Un-Mod area is not being Moderated by any of the Forum mods.
But you say you don't like the BLOG because of all the UnModerated B.S. Then you complain about Moderation in the forum? Are you really complaining because you think that their is UNfair Treatment?
I have gotten Moderated when I have written something that was Instigating or I have gotten spoken too.
So You MAY think its only certain people being Moderated But you are not correct.
What I ment by Forum wars you run over to another Forum to complain about this one. Because that other Forum doesn't like the Topics that some of use enjoy discussing The so called Pseudo science or other fringe stuff. So you were looking to get agreements.
You could have Posted Here your concerens about this Forum or Blog.
If you actually read some of the Posts here many have commented on the crap in the Blog as well.

Read very carefully, please. I am complaining ONLY about moderation in the UNMODERATED section of this Forum. You say I "run over there to complain about this one"... It's nothing I haven't said here. I've made the same complaints in the Blog Comments that it's become too annoying (for me) to have to wade thru the taterhole crap to find thoughtful and intelligent comments.

I've also had my protests deleted here in the moderated Forum, and yes, posts HAVE been deleted from the Un-Moderated section. Go read some current threats from a Mod in the 800 lb thread.

If you have a personal problem with the "other" forum, that has nothing to do with me.

Its one mod and its not a threat.
He says the said person is a Troll don't feed the troll.
We do have a host of other MODS in this forum you do know that right?
One is even a Mod in the other forums.
You can always speak to the other mods about the issues in PM.
I have had no issues talking to anyone of the mods in here in PM.
We all can get hot under the collar about stuff, even the mods. That is why we have several.

I have no problem with the other forum.
I just think that its amusing the people who don't like the conversations TZ and Myself and others have on different subjects go over to the other place and then come back and want to comment on the "fringe stuff" here. When they said they didn't like that stuff.

Shrugs

Kel,

You should reference the updated forum rules, and take into account that our intent is to keep discussion flowing and civil, here at our forum. Your disdain for my efforts in moderating is duly noted. It also has zero influence on my future efforts as one of the volunteer team of moderators intent on maintaining a forum where firestarting, and baiting are no longer encouraged by a lack of oversight. The skeptical are welcome to post, but intentionally baiting other members, with personal attacks and uncivil incitement will not go unchecked. If you have a problem with that you can take it up with Shawn our administrator.

Realize that we can view an entire history of posts by individual members, and if there is a redundant pattern of baiting/goading, it's our responsibility to challenge that behavior here. We look at the entirety of the content posted by a member before making a decision to warn, or delete posts.

When this forum began I made a post or two that targeted individuals I felt were trolling this board. I won't make excuses for that. It was wrong, and amends were made with those individuals. The target of the post you have threatened repeatedly to post, was subsequently banned by Shawn himself for trolling this forum. When I made the post you reference I was not a moderator. After becoming a moderator here, I felt a responsibility to be more balanced. I changed my tune and can provide ample evidence of that, with my posting record, and what I feel to be moderation consistent with the rules laid out by Shawn in the Admin section here. I've deleted very few posts, as I'm rarely even here anymore.. Those posts that were deleted belonged to both skeptics and proponents. That's something Shawn and the other moderators are aware of. You are not aware, and your perspective is different. You are entitled to your opinion. If your desire is to debate and argue my individual approach, this is not the appropriate place for that. This is all the time and effort I will give to this matter. From past experience I realize that your desire is to defend, and demand tolerance for those whom many of we moderators deem past or present trolls here. Unfortunately, I neither have the time or inclination to engage in such a trivial endeavor. I feel no need to justify my actions beyond what I've said here. We hope you stick around and come to a more balanced impression. We all are volunteer mods and others like myself work multiple jobs, and have families. Maybe you should PM Shawn and volunteer to moderate, if you desire changes in the administration of the forum.

Blessings,

NobleSavage

So there I was, minding my own business... and C not only hijacked my post from another Forum, but proceeded to put words in my mouth...

Never said I didn't like Shawn's Blog ~ I don't like the COMMENTS (so don't read them anymore).
Never said I didn't like this Forum moderated ~ I don't like Mods in the UNMODERATED section.

And I REALLY don't appreciate my comments from another Forum being dragged over here to incite an argument titled Forum WARS!

Again, C, I suggest you read more carefully... since I used Noble's posts to Got Yeti Yet as an example of Mods making threats in the UnModerated section.

He said ~
GOT YETI YET ONE POST AWAY FROM PERMANENT BAN
Go ahead and post once more GYY. If it's anything like the drivel you've posted prior, you will be permanently banned from the forum. Your commentary is no longer welcome here. You are obviously trolling.

To which Yeti (IMO rightfully and politely) answered ~

You keep saying I'm trolling. I say I have a different viewpoint on the matter than you do. That's all.
The question wrt OP, in part, is why there still isn't definitive photographic evidence of this creature you surely insists is real and in existence.
I say to you there is the very real possibility that it hasn't been photographed because it doesn't exist.
And you start giving me the business. Like Eddie Haskell all over the Beaver.
Have you ever considered that maybe BigFooT isn't real? Or do you bleeve unconditionally?


To Noble:
Please do use your super-powers to review my recent posts here ~ you'll find I've been absent for months. Ain't worth the grief. Enjoy your like-minded kingdom, but honestly, don't you find it all somewhat boring when free discussion is forbidden? The sound of crickets is deafening around here with the way days go by without a fresh post.

~ Kel

This is a history of posts by GotYeti, as anyone can see there is a pattern there....

https://bigfoot.forumotion.com/spa/Got%20Yeti%20Yet%3F

Un-moderated does not translate to Trolling Allowed Here...I doubt you will make it past my "super power" warning directed at Got Yeti to stop trolling, but if you could please read the link I've provided, and consider the entire posting record, it may shed some light on why GYY was warned. IMO, there is evidence in that link of classic trolling===via baiting, fire=starting, whatever you want to call it. Perhaps you should search for descriptions of trolling online to more fully understand what it's defined by. There is zero intention of moderating posts in the un-moderated section. If you want trolling allowed in the un-moderated section, please let me know. Maybe we can take a vote, I'm open to forum opinion. Mod's are still forum members, and I read the unmoderated section with interest myself. When I see trolling though I'm going to post my objection to it. Maybe some find that offensive because I'm a mod. So what's the alternative? Trolls take over that section?? That's what eventually would happen.

I think we'd all agree trolling occurs frequently enough on the blog itself. We enjoy a troll free environment here. If the bulk of your contributions here are nonsense and meant to incite others (as I deemed many of Got Yeti Yet's posts) you are unwelcome, period...Debate and discussion is welcome, and will never be moderated in the un-modded section. Trolling as far as I know, is not allowed anywhere on this forum, and for good reason I believe.

Do you have anything to contribute here regarding bigfoot, beyond your defense of trolling behavior on the forum? It would truly be a pleasure to hear you give your thoughts on the subject most of us are here to discuss.

Kel

How are the Crickets chirping over in the other forum?
Greetings to one...
Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:40 pm

Not much is posted over their and talked about.
SAS posts in the Blog more than his own forum. So does Stank and others.
Guess We here are just big bad evil people who like to talk about "pseudo science"

We all try to have good discussions here.
Occasionally some of us get annoyed at some of the "so called Skeptics" calling us stupid for believing what we believe.
It gets old when we have certain areas to discuss lets see Creationism vs ID and the ones who don't like that discussion jump in and blast us for talking about it.
Sorry I am all for discussions and other views but its these FEW who don't want to see our thought process and only come in and bash us.

Seems to me that we have a pretty open forum.
If it was totally Un-Moderated it would be like the BLOG which you said you don't like to read the comments anymore.

Sorry if I called you out. But If you have an issue with this forum or blog do you think it would have been better to PM Shawn or even Blondie about it instead of bitching about us in the other forum.
I just see it as something that could have been resolved in a way with out trying to slam this forum

CMcMillan wrote: Kel

How are the Crickets chirping over in the other forum?
Greetings to one...
Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:40 pm

Not much is posted over their and talked about.
SAS posts in the Blog more than his own forum. So does Stank and others.
Guess We here are just big bad evil people who like to talk about "pseudo science"

We all try to have good discussions here.
Occasionally some of us get annoyed at some of the "so called Skeptics" calling us stupid for believing what we believe.
It gets old when we have certain areas to discuss lets see Creationism vs ID and the ones who don't like that discussion jump in and blast us for talking about it.
Sorry I am all for discussions and other views but its these FEW who don't want to see our thought process and only come in and bash us.

Seems to me that we have a pretty open forum.
If it was totally Un-Moderated it would be like the BLOG which you said you don't like to read the comments anymore.

Sorry if I called you out. But If you have an issue with this forum or blog do you think it would have been better to PM Shawn or even Blondie about it instead of bitching about us in the other forum.
I just see it as something that could have been resolved in a way with out trying to slam this forum

CM.. Just an FYI because I do not think you realize it... But you are trolling It is nice that you have pride here, but whatever went on over there should stay over there

So the Un-modded section is now modded? PLEASE tell me I did not read that right. that section NEEDS to stay unmodded. That is what keeps the trolls away from here. And most skeptics do not feel comfortable posting in the modded section because they are fearful that their points willl not get across. Personally I like to hear what they have to say.. I like the debates. Kel was NEVER a troll here, just a true skeptic and it is okay to be a skeptic, I am probably the worst skeptic of all until something is proven to me or I witness it my self. I mean I keep my mind open, but I still like to over-analyze and take things apart.

Thanks, Tz. And you're quite right ~ I'm a true skeptic by nature, but I do believe Sas could exist undetected in the Northwest and Canada wilds. I'm open to that possibility, and hopefully we'll know one day soon.

I follow this Forum to learn and consider other opinions, and we can't get a full range of ideas when it is moderated by a heavy hand. I'm not talking about profanity or crude off-topic "jokes", but IMO, a very obvious bias against skeptics. That's why I was pleased to see an UNMODERATED forum, and now sorry to see it's not that after all.

As for crude anonymous Blog Comments seeping into here ~ that is why Shawn requires registration for the Forum. And again I'll say: I think we're all mature enough to simply avoid topics that are unpleasant to us, and to block members we find offensive.

As far as I know, and I'm open to correction, trolling is not allowed anywhere on this forum, including the un-moderated section.

I was not calling Kel a troll, I never said that. I said that un-moderated doesn't mean Trolling is Welcomed in that section.

Kel has never trolled, but I do find most of her complaints regarding the moderation of the forum, defensive of those who do troll.

I'm never here anymore anyway. If you guys want trolling allowed in the un-modded section that's fine, have fun with that.

I don't think that's the consensus here Tz . I'm tired of fighting an uphill battle with this. I get zero support here. So you guys have fun.

Laters,

NobleSavage

Unfortunately, it often seems that one man's "troll" is another man's skeptic.

Kel wrote:Unfortunately, it often seems that one man's "troll" is another man's skeptic.

I couldn't have put it any better Kel. Your buddy StankApe was a mistreated skeptic too wasn't he, until he was banned by Shawn for trolling.

Again, we have differing definitions of trolling. You need to go read the forum guidelines. It's clearly defined what trolling is to the mod's here.

The issue is your being able to personally define "troll" and threaten to boot members in what is clearly labeled an UNMODERATED forum. My statement stands: There is no such thing as an Unmoderated forum here.

No IF's AND's or BUT's here the unmodded section should stay unmodded. It was made for a reason. Actually "THIS" very reason:Skeptics not getting their words across before certain mods would delete their comments, or at least accuse certain Mods of deleting their comments.

Unlike the Blog, Trolls can't hide. But in modding the unmodded section, it is like opening a spill-way and sending a flood of Trolls our way. There are times that I want to bounce ideas around with fellow believers, but then there are times that I want to see how the opposition would respond. Who needs devil's advocates when you can have Devils?

Then again, I do not know the detail's of what was deleted in the past from unmodded section or why... I can think of things that would be inexcusable even for a "gloves off" environment. Death-Threats,Terroristic Threats, Sexual Harassment, and maybe flat out Hate... But aside from those, I can't think of anything that would warrant removal.

I'm done trying to convince the both of you.

If you have an issue, address it with Shawn, and I suggest you both go read the forum guidelines, as it appears neither of you have done so.

Kel wrote:My statement stands: There is no such thing as an Unmoderated forum here.

Should it be truly unmoderated? Should someone be able to come in and post racial slurs and attacks and the Mods turn a blind eye? Should someone have their personal information, name, address and phone number and the Mods just leave it?

What do you feel a "unmoderated" forum should look like?

And more to the point...WHY? There are places on this forum to discuss any topic. Is it necessary to discuss things in a way that goes unchecked? I do not think so.

I would go as far to say there should be no unmoderated forum...I said that when it was created. Has any good come from it?

Hi D )

No, I don't think racial slurs or personal info should be allowed, and they are not as a rule on any Forum of any topic. If somebody drops an F-bomb, I have no issue with a mod warning the offender and changing the type to F***. I think those things are common sense, and within the "job" of a moderator.

MY issue is the ability of a Mod, as often seen here, to delete comments basis his/her personal BF beliefs. Both Paul and Noble have told me "this place is 95% believers and we will favor them". How can they possibly make such a claim? When a Mod deletes a post, it is often gone before anybody knows it even existed. THAT is what an UNMODERATED section should prevent.


Case in point re: personal bias ~ Tzieth and Stankape (who I do not know or always agree with, btw) were discussing the Sykes study....

QUOTE TZIETH:
Working backwards? lol Okay perhaps that was the wrong article to have used. You are right, it is speaking of the genetic testing and did not mention DNA. (But how can you do one without the other?) But what was not being said in this article was that what is being sent is unknown DNA. Bear, Moose, etc.. was already ruled out. It is the same for Ketchum's study. Only you seem to find more on Oxford than you do on Melba Ketchum. (Unless you listen to what Robert Lindsay has to say, but I don't)

This one explains a little more.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18160673

However the last link I sent stated that Oxford was already setting up for peer review which can only mean that they found what they were looking for.


QUOTE STANK:
no.... he can't assume there is unknown DNA or else it muddies his study with bias. IF he is going to write a peer reviewed paper on this then he MUST go into it blind, he must have comparative samples of known animals to compare to, he must analyze all his results and post a conclusion based on them. If he is accepting "unknown DNA" then his study has already been done for him.

What the article says, is he is only getting the highest quality samples from people who have the strongest chain of custody and a better vetted chain of events for acquiring the sample.

I don't think you understand this very well.

(TO WHICH TZIETH LATER AGREED HE HAD MISINTERPRETED!)


Noble immediately deleted Stank's post. I protested, feeling it was quite politely stated (using the "I think" format as requested here).

QUOTE NOBLESAVAGE:

I'm trying to be more generous, and accepting of all opinion now, but I will not tolerate personal attacks, and will not allow new members to be shoved around, and belittled.



Therein lies the value of an UnModerated forum under a topic so contentious as Bigfoot.

~ Kel

DPinkerton wrote:

Kel wrote:My statement stands: There is no such thing as an Unmoderated forum here.

Should it be truly unmoderated? Should someone be able to come in and post racial slurs and attacks and the Mods turn a blind eye? Should someone have their personal information, name, address and phone number and the Mods just leave it?

What do you feel a "unmoderated" forum should look like?

And more to the point...WHY? There are places on this forum to discuss any topic. Is it necessary to discuss things in a way that goes unchecked? I do not think so.

I would go as far to say there should be no unmoderated forum...I said that when it was created. Has any good come from it?

No... Like I said, there are exceptions, but those exceptions should be extremes and should fall upon Shawn to address. The "TROLL" topic was addressed before the un-modded section.

I am not defending "Trolls" here but the definition is starting to blur into "Opposition"

You like to throw peanuts from the gallery Kel. I say again....volunteer if you think you can do a better job here. I don't see you contributing your time or energy beyond redundant criticism of me. What exactly is your goal with this repetitive critique? I think you are taking this way to personally. You've been stalking me and my moderation on this forum, since it's beginning. I'm done trying to justify my actions to you. You are never even here, and you pick and choose your examples of what you deem over-administration. Stankape was banned from this forum for trolling. My actions were just. Stank was trolling here, and that was the cause of his ban. I recognized it earlier than most. My status as a mod here is completely voluntary, and I couldn't possibly care less if that status is changed. Contact the Admin or continue to rail here. This is over for me. I'm certain it's not for you, as you simply must have the last word. I will not be baited into a futile exchange any longer.

Kel,

So do you find it ok in an UnMod Section that Stank was calling me a Dumb ~c**t and that I should not breed and have kids because I am to stupid to live because I believe things that he doesn't?

Kel,
I suggest if you want to see Moderation here different than As Nobel says Ask for Moderator status here. I am sure Shawn will be happy to give it to you.
He is always looking for different Views from Mods.

He asked me one time and I declined it because I know I will not make a good mod.

You are a great Mod, Noble... But in all fairness, I have not seen Kel in a while and she seemed to have sort of been called out over here for what she said elsewhere. I know CMc was upset and defending this forum, but that is how this started...

I do not agree with deleting anything on un-modded section, but as for these other sections, you have been great. All of the mods have. But then again, 90% of the people who post here are or were believer. Mods lol. Can you see the problem the skeptics would have for this?