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Thermal cameras - why no footage?

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Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  BurdenOfProof on Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:52 pm

So how does bigfoot know the exact range of a thermal camera with the ability to stay just out of range at all times?

How come when a normal camera is in use, believers (well some of the crazier youtubers) claim bigfoot is behind every tree?

Thats one intelligent ape!!
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  DPinkerton on Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:05 pm

BurdenOfProof wrote:... believers (well some of the crazier youtubers) claim bigfoot is behind every tree?

I think you answered your own question. Anyone who claims that bigfoot is behind every tree is clearly mistaken.

Many "legitimate" animal researchers have places thermal and other cameras in the hopes to capture known species in their natural environment and have come up with little to nothing.

Is there something to this post that you sincerely wished to discuss?

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he raises a good point

Post  Got Yeti Yet? on Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:10 pm

I'll go out on a limb say there are no bigfoots out there to be thermalled.

" the thermals it make da proof dat its´╗┐ .....thermal!"

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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  SasquaiNation on Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:25 pm

BurdenOfProof wrote:So how does bigfoot know the exact range of a thermal camera with the ability to stay just out of range at all times?

How come when a normal camera is in use, believers (well some of the crazier youtubers) claim bigfoot is behind every tree?

Thats one intelligent ape!!

Who said Bigfoot know the range of thermal imaging cameras? If someone actually said that, I'd have to doubt that person. You answered your own question on the youtubers. Many of them do see Bigfoot in every shadow, stump, rock and branch.
The funny thing I've noticed about MANY of these blobsquatch videos is this example paraphrased: "I shot this video 2 months ago and never noticed anything until I reviewed the video". That's a definite hoax clue there.
What I see in person when I record looks different in digital form. I can, and have gone back to an area because something looked "squatchy".
Some of these youtubers review a video, see something that looks like Bigfoot, and posts it. Many do it for fame and adoration because there is no money to be made on YouTube unless each video view is in the hundreds of thousands.

Not all of us are crazy Burden. Some of us actually do it for pure reasons. Being out in nature doesn't hurt the heart any either.

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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  BurdenOfProof on Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:49 pm

Well I was wondering because they always seem to be just out of range Smile

Even Bobo said that he was certain that when he first got hold of a thermal he would get the footage he has been waiting for all his life, but it never happened.

This is a big indicator to me that nothing is out there. A 10 foot 1000lb ape would stick out like a sore thumb on a thermal.
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  GT3Paul on Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:02 pm

I am working on this right now. I have two quality FLIR systems cameras, a Tau 320 and a Tau 640. These are perfect for this type of work.
Two problems. They are expensive unless you buy the cheaper handheld cameras that lack in Range. The tau 320 is almost $5000. The tau 640 I have is well over $8000 depending on the lens you buy. The guys I have been working with that are some of the mors advanced researchers dont have that kind of funds to spend on stuff like this. The other issue is although not difficult to integrate in to systems that researchers might have, alot of researchers dont have the scientific background to take full advantage of this technology. You have to have a video display and a computer system
to set the range, what type of color you want to use in your look up table and the list goes on.
This is going to change. I am putting them on airborne systems. It will make even easier to get good data.
At this time this type of advanced FLIR was only used by agencies that are not looking for BF.
So the advanced FLIR systems arent in the hands of the researchers yet. The ones that will get good data were too expensive.
The best possibility is getting a Junk system out of a BMW that uses it in its HUD (heads up Display) these are FLIR Pathfinder IR systems
and have good range but the sensors are not intense enough other to show hot spots on the road and they are $3500 new.

So thats the problem, and its going to change.
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  BurdenOfProof on Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:16 pm

I applaud your efforts great stuff.

There seems to be a lot of technology going in to try to find these creatures but we are still coming up empty. Another MASSIVE issue is the lack of trail cam photos. This is something I just cant get past. Ive heard people say bigfoots "shun" electronics and know what cameras are but I can not buy that for a second.
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  CMcMillan on Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:20 pm

Trail cams can no be placed certain areas with out permission unless your hiding it.
I don't think that the ammount of tech going out in the woods is that massive.
your still missing that most people do this on their own with no funding.
Unlike sending a rover to mars or looking for a particle.
Becase bigfoot isn't going to make get someone winning a nobel prize like discovering a subatomic particle.
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  BurdenOfProof on Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:26 pm

I dont know... I think finding a living bipedal evolutionary cousin would be a pretty big deal in science.
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  DPinkerton on Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:33 pm

Oh I would love to see a huge brightly colored red, orange and yellow blob on a thermal trail cam. It would surely be definitive proof!

Um no...It would be looked at as just that...a blob on a thermal camera. It would be even LESS evidence that the shaky blobs on daytime cameras and I think you know that.

If I was to take a scientific approach at capturing images of "bigfoot" it would not be at night and it would diffidently not be with a camera that captures images beyond that or human perception.

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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  SasquaiNation on Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:50 pm

CMcMillan wrote:Trail cams can no be placed certain areas with out permission unless your hiding it.
I don't think that the ammount of tech going out in the woods is that massive.
your still missing that most people do this on their own with no funding.
Unlike sending a rover to mars or looking for a particle.
Becase bigfoot isn't going to make get someone winning a nobel prize like discovering a subatomic particle.

Herein lies the problem, funding. Many,many people, including myself fund their own outings. It's hard to buy the greatest gear when you earn an average income. I would love to set up a dozen trail cams just in one small area but lack of funds prohibits that.
Large groups are capable of funding their efforts but little to nothing is ever shared with the general population in Bigfooting.
Paul has some very good ideas and he knows his stuff when it comes to technology. I would certainly consider him an expert in this field.
For the most part, "science" doesn't take this very seriously for quite a few reasons. It's only when trail blazers and pioneers have cut the way do scientists scramble over each other to get a piece of the research pie. You can apply that to almost any realm of scientific study.
Look at Tesla. The man was ages ahead of his time and people thought he was crazy. The Russians didn't think so, and I thought he was a brilliant man.

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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  CMcMillan on Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:34 pm

I agree completely
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  Kel on Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:19 pm

Plus... technology moves too fast now. I wouldn't invest today in a $3600 cam that will likely be obsolete by next summer. You could probably pool a group of guys to rent a state-of-the-art Flir in larger cities, but that's no help to those out in the boonies. I saw it mentioned that Flir will be loaning their best unit to the Finding Bigfoot production this season... will be cool to see it in action.

EDIT TO ADD: bamabuckster1 on YouTube has the best current Flir footage online. He's a straight arrow all the way, just sharing info and not trying to sell us anything.
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  GT3Paul on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:37 am

To answer Burdens question on trail cams. I need you go along with me for just a minute Burden and imagine you are a believer. Then after this exercise you can go back to being a skeptic. Deal?

Here is what I think. IF BigFoot exists AND are NOT migratory, in other words they stay in a certain area that is there home, then they probably know every inch (centimeter) of their territorial area. I am guessing that if they DO exist then they must be some smart cookies to avoid detection. Also being nocturnal I am also thinking they can see in the Infrared range. So just for this discussion we assume:
They exist
They are not migratory and live in a territory
They know this area like they have google maps programmed into their Brains.
They can see in the infrared Range and lastly
they are VERY intelligent at what they do.

So someone from that stupid group of things(Humans ) that carry BIG thundersticks and kill my people come into my home and place a BIG ASS box in my home territory. I notice it ASAP. The trigger is an IR sensor. I can SEE the beam, and if I wave my hand infront of it I can make it make some sort of clicking noise (we have seen instances where SOMETHING is messing with the game cams triggering them over and over) Then it has a hole in it facing outward with glass on it that reminds me of the glass they (humans) have on the tops of their thundersticks(scopes) It emits a whine (from the power supply) that I just dont trust and I am not going near it.

Of course thats all speculation on my part, no one knows how smart one of these things is IF they exist. But I am betting they are smarter than a deer or a mountain lion.

As a engineer I am flat out embarrassed by the design of these cams. Big Lunch boxes that the only disguise they have is painted Camo. SURELY someone can come up with a better more natural looking camera that doesnt make a big LUMP in a BigFoots living room. Its going to have to be small and highly undetectable to get a shot of a squatch unless its an OLD big ole guy that is losing his senses in his old age. But something tells me these things dont live to be old and decrepit like me.

Kel mentioned Technology moving fast. FLIRS arent moving THAT fast -NOTHING like computers and things like that. The FLIR cameras we were integrating into NIGHT attack aircraft arent that much different than what we were using then other than obviously getting smaller and consumeing less power.

It will be interesting to get my Birds up in the air with FLIRS and look at how good the images are from 200 feet up in the air where a squatch would have no idea its up there. Its going to take a few test flights to see how these things do autonomously at night with no lights, at the ranges the cameras are most effective
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  StankApe on Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:49 am

I know of no mammal that sees in infrared. That seems to be a pretty big leap of logic to just assume that Bigfoot has this trait.
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  CMcMillan on Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:17 am

Really Stank you make these claims of huge leaps of logic and they aren't.
Some animals do see in Ultraviolet and Infrared.

http://askabiologist.asu.edu/colors-they-see

REPTILES (snakes)
SOME COLOR AND INFRARED

SPIDERS (jumping spiders)
ULTRAVIOLET AND GREEN

INSECTS (bees)
ULTRAVIOLET, BLUE, YELLOW

http://www.mapoflife.org/topics/topic_311_Infrared-detection-in-animals/

http://www.eyes-and-vision.com/how-animals-see-the-world.html

http://www.camerahacker.com/myink/ViewPage.php?file=docs/Wildlife_and_the_Electromagnetic_Spectrum

Oh and of course you will now say well NO APE can see that way.
But this is your LEAP of Logic that a Bigfoot has every aspect of a human or ape. We have no idea what the creatures abilities are so it is possible they see differently since other animals can see Infrared.
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  Woodwose on Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:37 am

CMcMillan wrote:But this is your LEAP of Logic that a Bigfoot has every aspect of a human or ape. We have no idea what the creatures abilities are so it is possible they see differently since other animals can see Infrared.

Yes and no.

Obviously you can't assume that Bigfoot must correspond exactly with the physiology of known species. However we can look at variations within known species and use them as a guide to what is plausible.

When it comes infrared vision or tapetum lucidum the lack of these traits in any of the great apes means that it is highly unlikely that Bigfoot would possess them. Not entirely implausible, but so unlikely as to be virtually impossible. Saying it's highly plausible that Bigfoot has infrared vision is akin to saying that it's possible that some humans may be venomous. This is mostly because animals with infrared vision are separated from the great apes by millions of years.

Any speculation is pretty much a waste of time without at least a sample of Bigfoot DNA. With that we could determine their evolutionary position in relation to humans and other primates and then determine if there has been enough time for something like infrared vision to evolve.
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  CMcMillan on Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:14 am

I think part of the issue is that we are making an assumption that Bigfoots are an ape.
Now granted this tends to be the most logical belief that they are a branch of the "Primate family" much like humans.
But we evolved differently than our cousins the ape and possibly the bigfoot.

I have to find it but i recall a native american legend with coyote
http://accpaleo.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/legend-of-the-hairy-man/
So in this story the Hairy man possibly big foot.

SO it is is hard as you say until we have DNA results and are able to actually observe or examine a creature to tell what it has.
So it is and will be in the realm of possible.
Imagine if we do find that this "member of the primate family can see infrared" it does mess up our evolution a bit Smile


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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  BurdenOfProof on Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:20 am

CMcMillan wrote:I think part of the issue is that we are making an assumption that Bigfoots are an ape.
Now granted this tends to be the most logical belief that they are a branch of the "Primate family" much like humans.
But we evolved differently than our cousins the ape and possibly the bigfoot.

I have to find it but i recall a native american legend with coyote
http://accpaleo.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/legend-of-the-hairy-man/
So in this story the Hairy man possibly big foot.

SO it is is hard as you say until we have DNA results and are able to actually observe or examine a creature to tell what it has.
So it is and will be in the realm of possible.
Imagine if we do find that this "member of the primate family can see infrared" it does mess up our evolution a bit Smile



Do you support the theory of evolution?
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  CMcMillan on Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:37 am

What I believe in evolution is a bit different.
I am sure you will assume i am a freak and insane.

I think yes we evolved a single cell organism and that we are related to apes in a way.
I tend to go along with the Ancient Aliens theory.

Ancient Aliens (much like the idea behind movies as Prometheus or Mission to mars) of course i thought about this and actually wrote a paper in college about this before these movies.
These Aliens came to the earth at a time when animals had already evolved on earth from the single cell creature.
They took at the time the one they felt most adaptable to mess with (APES) or maybe they had seen the creature that we call bigfoot and messed with them.
The spliced DNA from themselves with the ape/bigfoot and genetically altered them. (This is why not all apes have evolved into humans). Perhaps they were working to create a work force for them or just playing with science like we do with genetic research.
These ape/humans were then manipulated more they kept playing and adjusting with or genetics.
It is possible that at some time during the manipulation a creature like bigfoot was created.
So to this day these aliens keep coming back and messing with the "main genetic" strain in humans. hence the alien abductions.
Its like how we tag animals in the wild to keep track of them.
When you look at many ancient religions they have common themes in them some great catastrophe. (Sinking of Atlantis and the flood, which i always felt were one in the same even the destruction of sodom and gomorrah could be seen as Atlantis)
Native american's talk about how the star people came down with fire. They talk about the creation of man how all the animals spoke to what they should put in them.

So yes I believe in the idea of evolution but for me the science of evolution doesn't explain these huge leaps of how we evolved.
We have missing links of our evolution still and we have yet to find the evidence so maybe we were an experiment.
the fact we as humans do this why can't it be possible some other life do this to us.
Oh yes because our science says space travel is impossible. ~rolls my eyes~


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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  BurdenOfProof on Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:05 am

How would an alien race have compatible DNA? In fact how do we even know it would be a carbon based life form or even have the same system of DNA?

It makes a cool movie though.
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  CMcMillan on Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:23 am

BurdenOfProof wrote:How would an alien race have compatible DNA? In fact how do we even know it would be a carbon based life form or even have the same system of DNA?

It makes a cool movie though.

Look you asked if i believe in evolution.
If you can explain the missing gaps in our evolution are then please do so and it could change my belief.
Until then you are making a you are assuming things that may be wrong, as well as I am.
You make the assumption that WE know everything...based off our limited science. That we may not figure out how to splice DNA with other animals. It is scientifically possible to manipulate dna.
I make the assumption that we don't know it all and an alien life may be more advance than us in all forms of science.
So to sit here and discuss with you this I will not do unless your serious about a good discussion taking MY Hypothesis that WE as humans don't know all science and that other life out in space may be more advance to us in many things.
You are limiting your self by what you can perceive at this present time.
Its amazing that people can believe in these subatomic particles or dark matter and yet not believe in Alien life that may be more advance than us. If we are all bits of atoms what makes us human and not a rock? Explain this to me in your science?

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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  Woodwose on Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:27 am

CMcMillan wrote:But we evolved differently than our cousins the ape......

We are apes, but pedantry aside, that's why I said that we need to look at the variation amongst species that belong to the same lineage as us. It gives us a good idea of what is and isn't likely for any unknown primates.

I suppose that there is a possibility that Bigfoot may not be a primate, but what would be the alternative, where is the evidence of this ancestral lineage and where are the palaeontological precedents?

When it comes to supposed gaps in human evolution and the Ancient Aliens Hypothesis, it's probably best if I don't comment. We're in danger of getting into the territory of AIG bunk.
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  Woodwose on Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:31 am

CMcMillan wrote:WE as humans don't know all science........

That doesn't mean that we must consider every fanciful hypothesis to be credible until proven otherwise. That way madness lies.
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Re: Thermal cameras - why no footage?

Post  CMcMillan on Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:32 am

again we won't know till we study one more
So i like to keep my options open to the possibilities not closed to oh it must be like this because of A and B.
It doesn't make me gullible. I think it makes me look at the whole picture bigger and go ok is it possible yes.

If you notice i am not jumping on and saying this or that IS a big foot. I am usually questioning as well.
Why do things not match up with other stories.


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