Re: The Ketchum Paper - What the experts say.

Kel Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:25 pm

Squatchmaster G wrote:Guys, can we try to get the thread back on topic? STankape was trying to derail the thread and right now we're just playing into his hands.

You know what? StankApe was once a great contributor here. Unfortunately, he let CMc's stalking and moderator bias (in allowing CMc's profanity) get to him. If only he had used that Ignore feature! CMc was told to quit stalking him and hijacking threads with attacks, and given "time-outs". But he was the one booted. Guess he's bitter bout that (which doesn't justify his comment to Pinkerton the other night).

***** Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:32 pm

Kel wrote:
Squatchmaster G wrote:Guys, can we try to get the thread back on topic? STankape was trying to derail the thread and right now we're just playing into his hands.

You know what? StankApe was once a great contributor here. Unfortunately, he let CMc's stalking and moderator bias (in allowing CMc's profanity) get to him. If only he had used that Ignore feature! CMc was told to quit stalking him and hijacking threads with attacks, and given "time-outs". But he was the one booted. Guess he's bitter bout that (which doesn't justify his comment to Pinkerton the other night).

You cannot be serious. You truly need some professional help. You have severe issues with authority of any kind. Comments like these are so beyond ridiculous they are unworthy of a response at all. You are welcome to voice opinion Kel, but if you continue to insult this board and those that administrate you will face a suspension. This is your first and last warning.

Kel Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:45 pm

NobleSavage wrote:
Kel wrote:
Squatchmaster G wrote:Guys, can we try to get the thread back on topic? STankape was trying to derail the thread and right now we're just playing into his hands.

You know what? StankApe was once a great contributor here. Unfortunately, he let CMc's stalking and moderator bias (in allowing CMc's profanity) get to him. If only he had used that Ignore feature! CMc was told to quit stalking him and hijacking threads with attacks, and given "time-outs". But he was the one booted. Guess he's bitter bout that (which doesn't justify his comment to Pinkerton the other night).

You cannot be serious. You truly need some professional help. You have severe issues with authority of any kind. Comments like these are so beyond ridiculous they are unworthy of a response at all. You are welcome to voice opinion Kel, but if you continue to insult this board and those that administrate you will face a suspension. This is your first and last warning.

CMcMillan Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:36 pm

Kel wrote:
Squatchmaster G wrote:Guys, can we try to get the thread back on topic? STankape was trying to derail the thread and right now we're just playing into his hands.

You know what? StankApe was once a great contributor here. Unfortunately, he let CMc's stalking and moderator bias (in allowing CMc's profanity) get to him. If only he had used that Ignore feature! CMc was told to quit stalking him and hijacking threads with attacks, and given "time-outs". But he was the one booted. Guess he's bitter bout that (which doesn't justify his comment to Pinkerton the other night).

Wow so I am to blame for Bigs/Stanks Blowup On Pinkerton. He is responisble for his own actions.
He was just as much to blame in the Stalking as well. So please get over it.

***** Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:54 pm

Kel wrote:
NobleSavage wrote:
Kel wrote:
Squatchmaster G wrote:Guys, can we try to get the thread back on topic? STankape was trying to derail the thread and right now we're just playing into his hands.

You know what? StankApe was once a great contributor here. Unfortunately, he let CMc's stalking and moderator bias (in allowing CMc's profanity) get to him. If only he had used that Ignore feature! CMc was told to quit stalking him and hijacking threads with attacks, and given "time-outs". But he was the one booted. Guess he's bitter bout that (which doesn't justify his comment to Pinkerton the other night).

You cannot be serious. You truly need some professional help. You have severe issues with authority of any kind. Comments like these are so beyond ridiculous they are unworthy of a response at all. You are welcome to voice opinion Kel, but if you continue to insult this board and those that administrate you will face a suspension. This is your first and last warning.

Thank You for quoting my post.

To reiterate this type of behavior and the defense of such will be challenged every time it's presented.

MrBigfoot wrote:

""

This is an open board for those with varied opinions that have a basis in reality and civil sensibility. The above and those who defend it as valued contribution will be challenged. Thanks Again!

Kel Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:17 pm

NobleSavage wrote:To reiterate this type of behavior and the defense of such will be challenged every time it's presented.

MrBigfoot wrote:

""

This is an open board for those with varied opinions that have a basis in reality and civil sensibility. The above and those who defend it as valued contribution will be challenged. Thanks Again!

Whoa Buddy. Let's be PERFECTLY CLEAR. I DID NOT defend MrBigfoot/Stank's crude post to Pinkerton, and in fact, called it over the line. Read up if you need to confirm that for yourself.

Squatchmaster G Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:46 am

It's been over two weeks since Ketchum posted this on her Facebook page on Feb 16:

I have independent analysis of our data going on. If the outcome of what we are doing supports our analysis, then we are vindicated. If not, then I will announce that also. It involves top level scientists that have volunteered after I released the paper. If their findings are the same, they will go public. So, please be patient. They also will assure upload to GenBank and they can make that happen.

I wonder when those results will be coming out. Question

Got Yeti Yet? Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:53 am

I don't post often on these forums cause you're (mostly)

Moderate me all you want.

Censor my posts as you wish.

But you ALL know good well no Human has ever a Lemur and made a Bigfoot.

Got Yeti Yet? Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:05 am

You don't think I'm serious? I'll issue the first ever BE challenge.

I will offer a thousand Bigfoot Bucks to the first female poster who successfully sires a BF-ish offspring.

Cath, think about this for a moment. It could be your chance to kill two birds with one stone. You get to prove to the world you have a vagina; that is capable of performing the biologically impossible task of birthing a bigfoot lemur bastard.

I don't think you'll ever have it in you. Prove me wrong babe.

Don't worry about where the hell you get lemur DNA. I got it baybee. Trust me. I own a zoo.

Kel Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:03 am

Squatchmaster G wrote:It's been over two weeks since Ketchum posted this on her Facebook page on Feb 16:
I have independent analysis of our data going on. If the outcome of what we are doing supports our analysis, then we are vindicated. If not, then I will announce that also. It involves top level scientists that have volunteered after I released the paper. If their findings are the same, they will go public. So, please be patient. They also will assure upload to GenBank and they can make that happen.

I wonder when those results will be coming out.

I haven't seen any time frame suggested since that post. She'd add a lot to any remaining shreds of credibility if she would name these "top level scientists" (which she claimed she had the first time around). Yeah, Question

Squatchmaster G Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:07 am

Got Yeti Yet? wrote:You don't think I'm serious? I'll issue the first ever BE challenge.

I will offer a thousand Bigfoot Bucks to the first female poster who successfully sires a BF-ish offspring.

Come on dude, you know that's not feasible.

It has to be one of those giant 500 lb lemurs and they went extinct 2000 years ago.

CMcMillan Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:46 am

Got Yeti Yet? wrote:You don't think I'm serious? I'll issue the first ever BE challenge.

I will offer a thousand Bigfoot Bucks to the first female poster who successfully sires a BF-ish offspring.

Cath, think about this for a moment. It could be your chance to kill two birds with one stone. You get to prove to the world you have a vagina; that is capable of performing the biologically impossible task of birthing a bigfoot lemur bastard.

I don't think you'll ever have it in you. Prove me wrong babe.

Don't worry about where the hell you get lemur DNA. I got it baybee. Trust me. I own a zoo.

And another Troll.
Again for some who says they own a Zoo, you obviously didn't read the paper or see the Tree that Melba made. She said it leans to the Lemur side of the decendent and not ape. And yet again if Neanderthal Mated with Humans it is possible that since Lemurs and Apes have a common ancestor that at one time in the tree their was a decendent from either side that could mate with humans. But you small minded trolls see Lemur and think the current Lemur and don't actually understand where she listed it.
grow up.

Squatchmaster G Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:10 am

CMcMillan wrote:And yet again if Neanderthal Mated with Humans it is possible that since Lemurs and Apes have a common ancestor that at one time in the tree their was a decendent from either side that could mate with humans. But you small minded trolls see Lemur and think the current Lemur and don't actually understand where she listed it.

The prosimian suborder Strepsirrhini (lemurs and lorises) split from the Haplorhini (simians/apes/etc) at least 55 million years ago. Ketchum claimed that the Sasquatch hybridisation happened 15,000 years ago therefore it would have had to have been an actual lemur and not a euprimate ancestor.
Note that the hypothetical hybridisation has to have happened sometime in the last 15,000 otherwise the miDNA would have mutated into something that wasn't purely Homo sapiens, as Ketchum explains.

Note that Melba herself flags the recently extinct Archaeoindris giant lemur as a possible candidate and not some ancient lemur ancestor.

Woodwose Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:01 am

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that CM is suggesting that one or more of the giant lemur species rafted back to Africa and then over millions of years evolved in similar ways to the hominid/hominin line to become an upright intelligent species of lemur. This species then migrated around the globe, eventually finding its way to the new world and mated with humans 15,000 BCE to create BF.

.....or BF is a lemur descendant of the Madagascar giant lemurs and the human mtDNA is merely evidence of a hybridisation event that occurred when humans encountered these sapient lemurs.

Squatchmaster G Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:25 am

Woodwose wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that CM is suggesting that one or more of the giant lemur species rafted back to Africa and then over millions of years evolved in similar ways to the hominid/hominin line to become an upright intelligent species of lemur. This species then migrated around the globe, eventually finding its way to the new world and mated with humans 15,000 BCE to create BF.

It still wouldn't be biologically capable of creating a viable hybrid species by mating with a homo sapiens.

DPinkerton Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:31 am

Seriously?

We are talking DNA here, not sex with lemurs. We are talking about TRACES of nuDNA...how it is feasible that traces of some ancestral primate have continued through the DNA chain. And how some unknown primate that still carried these traces mated with a homo sapien.

For people who stand so firm on "science" you really need to take a step back and stop jumping to wild fantasies.

Woodwose Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:33 am

Squatchmaster G wrote:It still wouldn't be biologically capable of creating a viable hybrid species by mating with a homo sapiens.

I agree and these sapient lemurs could not be considered part of our homo lineage.

However, lets wait and see if this is how CM is interpreting Ketchum's hypothesis.

DPinkerton Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:50 am

I think it would be helpful for this discussion to have EXACTLY was was proposed/speculated by Ketchem concerning this Lemur. Do anyone have a copy of the statement made or section in her paper?

Squatchmaster G Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:52 am

DPinkerton wrote:We are talking DNA here, not sex with lemurs. We are talking about TRACES of nuDNA...how it is feasible that traces of some ancestral primate have continued through the DNA chain.

Melba Ketchum said the male progenitor was "definitely not an ape" so that rules out all the hominoids. If it's "headed more towards the lemur line" then we're definitely talking about sex with a lemur or something descended from lemurs. Ketchum's hypothesis is that a homo sapiens female had sex with a male lemuriform.

Here's the interview where she discusses it. The relevant quotes are from about 5.00:

Melba's own words, interpreting the conclusions from her paper.

Woodwose Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:53 am

DPinkerton wrote:We are talking about TRACES of nuDNA...how it is feasible that traces of some ancestral primate have continued through the DNA chain. And how some unknown primate that still carried these traces mated with a homo sapien.

If that's all Ketchum was saying, then the lemur DNA would be less problematic. The nDNA is also showing that there are no sequences homologous to non-human apes and Ketchum's saying that BF is a non-ape primate that is descended from lemurs.

For people who stand so firm on "science" you really need to take a step back and stop jumping to wild fantasies.

It's not my fantasy. Some people are seriously interpreting the paper in the way I described above. I was merely trying to establish if CM interprets things that way also.

CMcMillan Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:12 am

For many years Science did not think Neanderthal and Modern Human lived around the same time.
Now we have found out they have and that they mated with each other.

So here we have Possibly a None-Ape NuDNA in what is supposedly bigfoot. This Male Line seems to indicate that it is closer to the dna of a Lemur than Ape.
It is possible that the Evolution of Bigfoot was not that drastic and they still have the ability and had the ability when the lines were so much closer that interbreeding was able too.
So the male didn't evolve as we think Humans evolved it stayed stagnant and still contained enough match to mate with a human to create the creature we now call bigfoot.
We suspect Neanderthal died out but maybe We Modern humans Killed our cousin? Or they were bread out our line.

We can not know what actually happened that far back if at one time we believed Neanderthal was not living or matting with us and now they believe they did.

So to sit and claim IT CAN'T be possible is completely false.

CMcMillan Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:23 am

samples showed homology to human chromosome 11 reference sequence hg 19, and to primate sequences. The totality of the DNA evidence suggests the Sasquatch nuclear DNA is a mosaic comprising human DNA interspersed with sequence that is novel but primate in origin.

In summary, our data indicates that the Sasquatch has human mitochondrial DNA but possesses nuclear DNA that is a structural mosaic consisting of human and novel non-human DNA.

Woodwose Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:30 am

That doesn't quite answer my question CM.

If the paper is correct and the nDNA does not come from a hominid/hominoid species, where did it come from?

Do you think we are dealing with a species that evolved from lemurs after prosmian species branched off in a different direction to other primates?

Also, your unreferenced quote completely contradicts Ketchum's assertion that we are dealing with something that is "deffinately not an ape".

CMcMillan Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:35 am

Its not evolved from Lemurs. its a branch of this evolved TOO become Lemurs.
The original line was much like our past ancestors. And they were able to interbreed with Neanderthal and others and that would also allow this past line to bread with Modern Human as well.
This is what created the Line of this Bigfoot... somehow they were able to survive while the Lemurs on Madagascar evolved to what they are out of pressures on them.

Squatchmaster G Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:41 am

CMcMillan wrote:
Its not evolved from Lemurs. its a branch of this evolved TOO become Lemurs.
The original line was much like our past ancestors. And they were able to interbreed with Neanderthal and others and that would also allow this past line to bread with Modern Human as well.
This is what created the Line of this Bigfoot... somehow they were able to survive while the Lemurs on Madagascar evolved to what they are out of pressures on them.

Wait, are you saying that the male progenitor was a relict euprimate (common ancestor of lemurs and apes) that somehow evolved from a tiny squirrel-like creature to a giant 800 lb Sasquatch-like creature over 55 million years while its DNA remained "stagnant" and that this species was close enough to Homo sapiens to create a viable hybrid species but its nuDNA registers as a lemur-like non-ape in Ketchum's study? Because that doesn't make sense at all. Hominid and lemuriform nuDNA would be quite different from even the ancient euprimate nuDNA, let alone a Sasquatch-like creature that evolved from euprimates.

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The Ketchum Paper - What the experts say.