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Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  Woodwose on Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:40 am

CMcMillan wrote:Back your claim up with facts please.
Examples please

What facts or examples do you want?

I can't supply facts that back up claims that science has not made. There are no fossils that show a fish suddenly turning into a mammal because that does not occur, it is not predicted by evolutionary theory and not observed as part of the process of speciation.

Are you suggesting that there are no intermediate fossil forms showing transitions between species (see the Homo lineage for example)?
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  Woodwose on Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:54 am

For those interested.......http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/08/30/how-the-turtle-got-its-shell/
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  CMcMillan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:06 am

Science has claimed that all life has evolved from a single cell organism!

Nor was the origin of the very first 'life' due purely to chance. Atoms and molecules arrange themselves not purely randomly, but according to their chemical properties. In the case of carbon atoms especially, this means complex molecules are sure to form spontaneously, and these complex molecules can influence each other to create even more complex molecules. Once a molecule forms that is approximately self-replicating, natural selection will guide the formation of ever more efficient replicators. The first self-replicating object didn't need to be as complex as a modern cell or even a strand of DNA. Some self-replicating molecules are not really all that complex at all. Moreover, the molecules build on one another; life didn't spring into being overnight, but was the end result of millions of years of chemical bonding that created, one after the other, larger and more complicated molecules

Where did the 1st molecule come from? Explain that to me?

A transitional fossil is one that looks like it's from an organism intermediate between two different creatures. To say there are no transitional fossils is simply false. Paleontology has progressed a bit since Origin of Species was published, uncovering thousands of transitional fossils. The fossil record is still spotty and always will be; erosion and the rarity of conditions favorable to fossilization make that inevitable.

AHHH the cop-out Its spotty but we do have "sections of evolution"
Kinda like the argument against Bigfoot believers .
Science in itself has Missing data.

Consider first how evolutionists interpret similarities between species living today. Present-day humans and chimpanzees, despite obvious external and behavioral differences, have extremely similar internal organs and physiological functions; indeed their genes are more than 98% identical. Just as the resemblance between two siblings suggests a common parentage, resemblance between species suggests common ancestors. Evolutionists believe that humans, gorillas, and chimpanzees evolved from a common ancestor: an ape-like creature that lived perhaps five to ten million years ago, rather recently on the geological time scale. Species less similar to humans than are apes--mice, for example--are believed to have branched off millions of years earlier from a common primitive mammalian ancestor. Evolutionary family tree diagrams that express such relationships between species have been constructed by evolutionary biologists by analyzing similarities of present-day organisms. In many cases, fossilized remains of extinct species can be used to support the features of such evolutionary trees.

What hasn't been observed is one animal abruptly changing into a radically different one, such as a frog changing into a cow. This is not a problem for evolution because evolution doesn't propose occurrences even remotely like that. In fact, if we ever observed a frog turn into a cow, it would be very strong evidence against evolution.


of course changing from a dinosaur raptor Lizard to a flying bird isn't radical?

source:
http://www.worsleyschool.net/science/files/evolution/facts.html

Look science BELIEVE something happened.
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  Woodwose on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:18 am

CMcMillan wrote:Science has claimed that all life has evolved from a single cell organism!

You are talking about abiogenesis and there are numerous hypotheses - which one are you referring to?

Evolution only deals with what occurs once life is established.

AHHH the cop-out Its spotty but we do have "sections of evolution"

According to that logic the explanation for the lack of BF remains/fossils is also a cop out. I think you might have spent too long reading AIG.

of course changing from a dinosaur raptor Lizard to a flying bird isn't radical?

Evolutionary theory doesn't claim that there was a sudden leap from raptor to bird. Similarly there is no claim that land based mammals suddenly turned into cetaceans - another often touted fallacy.

If you read the article on turtle evolution, it should give you an insight on the way evolution works.


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I have the UN-edited copy from the forum!

Post  Sweetsusiq on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:20 am

Blondie1 wrote:
StankApe wrote:I had reached the end by that point, , tired of talking to obvious children..... if you will believe anything someone tells you, you are a child. so I flipped out on em...... fuck em if they can't take it. weak people have no place trying to debate science they don't even understand anyway.

stick to church , you can go there and pretend to believe in some silly invisible man who lives in the sky all you want (and have a pot luck dunner afterwards!!) leave the people who have a brain to worry about life's big issues. Most of you would be better left to stuff like cutting grass and knitting.


I've gotten where I just don't give a shit anymore here. I've gone from someone who really wanted to discuss these thins in depth, to someone who got sick of being fucked with and fought back. Then I realized that it would be much more interesting to just troll ..... it gets the EXACT SAME RESPONSE I got when I tried to be nice and discuss... I still got called names, threatened with violence....etc, at least now I get to crack up when somebody pretends their feelings got hurt (and if susi's feelings really got hurt that bad, then she needs to see somebody cuz dat shit ain't normal0

I wonder about some of you, so easily frazzled. Hell when my house got broken into last month I stayed up all night, but not due to fear, I was sitting there with an aluminium bat waiting to brain those bastards.... I think most of you would have moved to swaziland...........




I don't get why not believing in god and wanting to keep prayer out of schools means I hate my country though. there isn't a christian/constitution connection. the founding fathers were deists, they were mostly Free Masons who believed in The Great Architect of the Universe, not some christian god (and they pretty explicitly said that there was to be no state church and no state sponsored religion).... but apparently, once you get to be old (blondie) or indoctrinated, you can just ignore the constitution and let Jesus take over...... that's a bad plan
Sweet says:
I have the entire conversation from before Stank edited or deleted his comments. Should I post it here?
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  CMcMillan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:21 am

Anyway,
I think this whole discussion is out of control and stupid.
You ask for facts to back up peoples belief in god yet when we ask for science or you to show us proof of something you call it the straw-man

If you can tell me what started the big-bang where these molecules came from that started it. where the HEAT came from. Then i will say you have every right to ask for proof of god. But if you can ask for proof of god I can ask for proof science claims as well.

EDIT:
PS: I can also Question science on this Theory as well. They still can not explain it. The best we have is Well IT was always there.


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To Susiq

Post  Blondie1 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:21 am

Susiq, no it's ok.
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  CMcMillan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:23 am

Woodwose wrote:
CMcMillan wrote:Science has claimed that all life has evolved from a single cell organism!

You are talking about abiogenesis and there are numerous hypotheses - which one are you referring to?

Evolution only deals with what occurs once life is established.

so now they are Hypotheses not theories?


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Plus 10 for CM

Post  Sweetsusiq on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:23 am

CMcMillan wrote:Wow

OK science GUYS
Answer me 2 simple Questions:

1.) We evolved from a Single cell organism and every bit of Life on this planet came from the same Single cells Why is their such a variety of animals and Plant life?


2.) The Universe was created via the BigBang or expanding universe. Where did the 2 initial Particles come from that caused the big bang?


I want the actual scientific Evidance and the experiments to back your answer up. I want to see the Results of us creating a New life form or a new universe.


Then you can mock peoples belief in a higher life form all you want.
Well said!
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  Woodwose on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:31 am

Asking for proof to back up claims science has not made is a Straw Man argument - fact!

Your Straw Man arguments demonstrate that you have not understood the science under discussion - fact!

When you are presented with evidence, you ignore it - fact!

Science does not claim to have all the answers, but looks for ways to answer those questions. Science does not know how the universe started, but presents several testable hypotheses. Because we do not the answers yet, it does not follow they will not be discovered at some point in the future.

The alternative to science is wilful ignorance and a belief in anything that cannot be disproven - that way madness lies.

If that's what satisfies you, then so be it. But answer me this, if God created the universe, who created God? - the first cause argument cuts both ways.


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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  Woodwose on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:33 am

CMcMillan wrote:so now they are Hypotheses not theories?

The TOE = theory

Abiogenesis = hypothesis

Had I not made that clear?
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  CMcMillan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:35 am

LOL thank you for proving my point.

Just as science says Universe and the particles were just their .
People who believe in god or goddess say the same.

Welcome to the religion of science!
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We have the smartest members of any forum anywhere!

Post  Sweetsusiq on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:38 am

Tzieth wrote:
Woodwose wrote:Although I think that StankApe's attitude is counterproductive, I understand his frustration and think he is right up to a certain point.

Anyone who denies evolution (not to be confused with the TOE) is a crackpot. To disregard the findings of hundreds of evolutionary scientists is frankly crazy.

The view that all things are possible because science does not have the answers is also BS. Science operates according to falsifiability and it can only continue as long as people question the norm.

As far as religeon is concerned, anyone who has studied comparative theology can see that there is no consensus and that atheism towards competing religions clearly points towards religion being entirely man made.

"Although I think that StankApe's attitude is counterproductive, I understand his frustration and think he is right up to a certain point.

Anyone who denies evolution (not to be confused with the TOE) is a crackpot. To disregard the findings of hundreds of evolutionary scientists is frankly crazy."


Okay, you have me on your terminology of the word "Hominid" sort of. From what I am reading both terms are accepted. But "To disregard the findings of hundreds of evolutionary scientists is frankly crazy." What findings? Name one single finding??? You can't because there is none! That whole field is fudged to fit it's atheistic view point. So you found fossils of multiple Hominids and I mean "HOMINIDS" as in not apes. Actually I did not know the degree to which it has been fudged until I stumbled onto it by accident. Some of these closely related Hominids on the tree are debated as possibly being the same damed creature. Everyone wants their name on crap. Many of these are based on broken bones of non complete skeletons.

Evolution lacks more evidence, then you are willing to accept. You based all modern biology off of it, and you based genealogy off of it. And now the case Stank was trying to make "DNA" is countering it in a way.

"The view that all things are possible because science does not have the answers is also BS. Science operates according to falsifiability and it can only continue as long as people question the norm."

Really? then why aren't evolutionists doing the same? Are they making crap up to fit their theory? I brought up the Hominid skeletons to you to make a point about Patty's proportions. You then said that many of those skeletons were not complete. So which is it? Are the reconstructions correct, or were things fudged to meet an agenda? Question the norm? So making theories into hard science and passing them off as fact is "Questioning the norm"?.. Well.. I guess it is now. lol

"As far as religeon is concerned, anyone who has studied comparative theology can see that there is no consensus and that atheism towards competing religions clearly points towards religion being entirely man made."

Atheism IS a religion. And because it IS a religion, no one is asking the right questions. At least creationists have a God to check their arrogance before it gets out of hand. (Pride is a sin.)

"As far as religeon is concerned, anyone who has studied comparative theology can see that there is no consensus and that atheism towards competing religions clearly points towards religion being entirely man made."

That made absolutely no sense. The most I got out of it was Atheists think religion is man-made... uhh yeah we all know this. lol

SweetSusi says:
Plus 10 for you my friend. I love you Well said indeed!
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  Woodwose on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:39 am

CMcMillan wrote:LOL thank you for proving my point.

That's a particularly mendacious interpretation of what I said.
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  CMcMillan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:44 am

mythology definition
The body of myths belonging to a culture. Myths are traditional stories about gods and heroes. They often account for the basic aspects of existence — explaining, for instance, how the Earth was created, why people have to die, or why the year is divided into seasons. Classical mythology — the myths of the ancient Greeks and Romans — has had an enormous influence on European and American culture.

Look at what Science does?
Theories explain: how the Earth was created, why people have to die,, where we came from, and why we are alive.

What we call science is Modern Mans Mythology


re·li·gion   [ri-lij-uhn]
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

Now look at definition of religion:
Seems science is by all definitions a modern mans religion.

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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  Woodwose on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:47 am

Tzieth wrote:Really? then why aren't evolutionists doing the same?

They do it all the time. Falsifying data is part of the scientific method.

Atheism IS a religion.

Nope. It's a lack of belief in a deity - nothing more, nothing less.

That made absolutely no sense.

That's not my fault. I was essentially pointing out that all theists are atheistic towards other beliefs and that the existence of a deity would not result in such disagreement.
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  Woodwose on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:52 am

Dictionaries at dawn again Rolling Eyes

Look at what Science does?
Theories explain: how the Earth was created, why people have to die,, where we came from, and why we are alive.

Theories based on observable and testable phenomenon. If a hypothesis is tested and proven wrong you go back to the drawing board and try and figure out another approach. Religion doesn't do that, so it is in no way comparable.

Have you read the article on turtle evolution yet? Any thoughts?

Where did God come from and how do you falsify your beliefs?


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What's About To Happen?

Post  Sweetsusiq on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:53 am

Tzieth wrote:
StankApe wrote:I had reached the end by that point, , tired of talking to obvious children..... if you will believe anything someone tells you, you are a child. so I flipped out on em...... fuck em if they can't take it. weak people have no place trying to debate science they don't even understand anyway.

stick to church , you can go there and pretend to believe in some silly invisible man who lives in the sky all you want (and have a pot luck dunner afterwards!!) leave the people who have a brain to worry about life's big issues. Most of you would be better left to stuff like cutting grass and knitting.


I've gotten where I just don't give a shit anymore here. I've gone from someone who really wanted to discuss these thins in depth, to someone who got sick of being fucked with and fought back. Then I realized that it would be much more interesting to just troll ..... it gets the EXACT SAME RESPONSE I got when I tried to be nice and discuss... I still got called names, threatened with violence....etc, at least now I get to crack up when somebody pretends their feelings got hurt (and if susi's feelings really got hurt that bad, then she needs to see somebody cuz dat shit ain't normal0

I wonder about some of you, so easily frazzled. Hell when my house got broken into last month I stayed up all night, but not due to fear, I was sitting there with an aluminium bat waiting to brain those bastards.... I think most of you would have moved to swaziland...........




I don't get why not believing in god and wanting to keep prayer out of schools means I hate my country though. there isn't a christian/constitution connection. the founding fathers were deists, they were mostly Free Masons who believed in The Great Architect of the Universe, not some christian god (and they pretty explicitly said that there was to be no state church and no state sponsored religion).... but apparently, once you get to be old (blondie) or indoctrinated, you can just ignore the constitution and let Jesus take over...... that's a bad plan

That whole post was an oxymoron in it's self... Where do i start?

1) If we believed everything we were told, wouldn't we believe you?

2) You do not "Pretend to believe" you either do or you don't. lol

3) You speak of us talking about science we know nothing about, and yet when we point out the problems with your "Science" you not only address them, but you resort to flinging insults at people.

4) The great Architect of the Universe IS the Christian God lol. Jesus himself was a builder. The Free Masons were an off-shoot of the Knights Templar. They were excommunicated from the Catholic Church and then later eradicated when the Catholics Stated that they were heretics and worshiped the Devil. They in turn Considered the Catholic Church as corrupt and felt that they found proof that the Church was withholding information due to some sort of document or relect they uncovered during the last Crusade.(No one knows what it is, but the thought is that it is what now drives the Free Masons) They followed a form of Christianity boarder-lined "Gnosticism" but was more of a Christian version of kabbalism. When the Church started eradicating them, legend has it that this was when the hiding Templars founded the Free-Masons. (Free Masons are so secretive that no one knows.) But the Free Masons use Templar symbols. (All Templars were warrior Priests)

Separation between Church and State, meant that the State could not tell the Church what do do (As with England) And the Church could not tell the State what to do (As with the rest of Europe.) This was to maintain "Freedom of Religion" But to them all religion was Christianity. Puritans, Quakers, Catholics, Anglicans etc.. As Everyone in the Colonies followed one of these sects.

To keep prayer out of school is un-American because it also violates Church and State. and Freedom of Religion at the same time. Here you have the State telling the Church it cannot do something. Schools could be private or Public. But Public does not mean "State" in "Separation between Church and State" State means the Government and the Government's allegiance was to God and not denomination. "One Nation under God" Even the President swears his oath to God while placing his hand on the Bible "So help me God".

If the School was forcing students to pray, that is one thing. But it has no right to tell students that they cannot form their own prayer groups. (but they keep trying, succeeding and then getting sued and repealing.) I guess it is irrelevant now though. Something is about to happen that will change everything.

Susi asks:What's About To Happen? Shocked
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  CMcMillan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:59 am

Woodwose wrote:Dictionaries at dawn again Rolling Eyes

Look at what Science does?
Theories explain: how the Earth was created, why people have to die,, where we came from, and why we are alive.

Theories based on observable and testable phenomenon. If a hypothesis is tested and proven wrong you go back to the drawing board and try and figure out another approach. Religion doesn't do that, so it is in no way comparable.

Have you read the article on turtle evolution yet? Any thoughts?

Have you studied ancient mythology?
You do realize that early science that is now Mythology was based on a lot of observation at the time.

I observe the sun going across the sky and the moon rises, I believe the earth is flat and i see chariots that others drive. So My observation is that someone is driving the sun and moon across the sky.

I observe an earth quake, I see how I hit the ground with foot hard and it shakes the table. I conclude that some being must be causing the earth to shake.

Just because we have gone from the belief of some mighty being causing these things doesn't mean that today's science is not by definition a religion or myth.
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  Woodwose on Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am

Empirical observations aren't the same as looking at stuff and making up interesting stories.

Science works because it is testable, repeatable and useful. Stories about dragons swallowing the sun are fantasy with no real value.

Have you read the turtle article yet?

What created God?
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  Sweetsusiq on Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:08 am

Woodwose wrote:Asking for proof to back up claims science has not made is a Straw Man argument - fact!

Your Straw Man arguments demonstrate that you have not understood the science under discussion - fact!

When you are presented with evidence, you ignore it - fact!

Science does not claim to have all the answers, but looks for ways to answer those questions. Science does not know how the universe started, but presents several testable hypotheses. Because we do not the answers yet, it does not follow they will not be discovered at some point in the future.

The alternative to science is wilful ignorance and a belief in anything that cannot be disproven - that way madness lies.

If that's what satisfies you, then so be it. But answer me this, if God created the universe, who created God? - the first cause argument cuts both ways.
The "scientists" find facts that back up their personal belief system, IMHO. Perhaps God has always existed, and He created the Heavens and the worlds, plus us. Perhaps we really were created, perhaps everything was made by One hand, and made with Love. I love you to all..
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  CMcMillan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:13 am

I don't need an answer for who created god Wood.
Just like science doesn't need to explain where the Particles came from that started the big bang.
Since science explains well it was just was. Then why can't god be just that as well?

Again you totally missed the point.
Old Mythology and Religion were the science of the times. This is historical fact.
As we moved forward things changed.
Just as some scientists don't believe new theories we have some religions not believing the others.

Science is BY DEFINITION a Mythology
Science attempts to explain the Universe and Life

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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  Woodwose on Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:17 am

Sweetsusiq wrote:The "scientists" find facts that back up their personal belief system, IMHO.

Then you clearly don't understand the scientific method or the process of peer review. Science involves falsifying hypotheses and as such scientists are constantly trying to prove themselves wrong.

Perhaps God has always existed, and He created the Heavens and the worlds, plus us.

So, how does that differ from the notion that the Big Bang came from nothing (which is in fact a misrepresentation of the Big Bang theory)?

How do you test the hypothesis that God has always existed?
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  CMcMillan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:20 am

from your own article you posted:

Evolution of the turtle body plan. (Top) A hypothetical sequence of changes in musculoskeletal connectivities. The scapula is red, AS muscle orange, latissimus dorsi blue, and pectoralis green. In Odontochelys, the AS would have connected the scapula and distal tips of anterior ribs antero-posteriorly. The pectoralis would have connected the humerus and the plastron (pl). (Bottom) A phylogenetic consideration. In Odontochelys, the CR (red broken line) may have developed only temporarily and incompletely in the embryo. In the modern turtle, the CR (red solid line) forms a complete circle, inducing the fan-shaped growth of the ribs. dc, dermal carapace.

It was interesting but it is also said to be hypothetical. Trying to explain a result.


How do you test the hypothesis that God has always existed?

How do you test that the universe was just there?
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

Post  CMcMillan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:23 am

you do realize that your own scientific belief ends in a road block that it can not get over.
You ask for Proof of God yet science can not Prove where 2 small particles that started the universe came from.
They end up going well they were just there.

So you come to a road block and have to accept something just as a person who believes in a god has to accept something as well.


Ps:

I like to think my version of the road block is much more fun to believe in
A god and goddess getting it on Smile
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Re: Let's Fling Some [Bigfoot] Poop

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